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View Diary: 2. Update - Dr. Cornel West arrested at Supreme Court in Washington DC (321 comments)

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  •  So What? (24+ / 0-)

    He deserves the attention. He's interesting, in the right, and a leader.

    Now, on what basis do you seek the attention with your carping post? What good is it doing anyone but your own attention needs? How do you like the attention it's scoring you?

    "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

    by DocGonzo on Sun Oct 16, 2011 at 04:26:26 PM PDT

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    •  It is extremely disgraceful (8+ / 0-)

      and no, Mr. West is NO leader. He is an attention seeker who bears personal grudges.  It is extremely disgraceful for him to time this "arrest" during the weekend of a dedication in order to bring attention to himeslf.

      Can you name ONE thing that Mr. West has done to help the black community? It's no coincidence that most Black people do not support West's antics.  Right now he seems attractive to a certain faction of  "progressives" because they can use him in pretty much the same way the GOP is using Herman Cain....

      •  Wow. (11+ / 0-)

        I think I'm on the record as having nothing but d for West, but this comment Way over the top.

        Besides, no need to dump on this thread if his fans want to show him some of that famed "funky love."

        •  I am not sure what you mean pls. explain (6+ / 0-)

          I am not a "fan" of Dr. West.  Actually I have heard him speak only occasionally on TV for the occasion of something I don't remember. A lot of black leaders sitting on a podium and talk something that is dear to their heart, apparently. Most often he was the only one saying something of substance, imo. He has his own style of speaking, if you don't like the style, so be it, can you say something to the substance he is saying? What do you mean by you are on record as having nothing but d for West. What do you mean by "d"?

          If he were an attention seeker, he would have made big splashes about wanting to be arrested, or not? He didn't.

          I realized once here on dailykos that Dr. West is apparently not very much respected or loved in this community, at least by some. May be because he said something critical about Obama?

          What I am a bit amazed about is the fact that you put me automatically in the category of fans that show him some of the "funky love". What's that supposed to mean?

          I am a foreigner, have even difficulties sometimes to understand what he says (as I have with Jesse Jackson talking), I am far from anything funky ... but just to put him down as someone did here once as "racially-based" agitator (I don't remember anymore the words used for him other than the accusation that he is racially-based something. Too lazy to search for the comment)

          That's why I put out exactly what I felt today, that he was funny, witty, loving and agitating. As he should be for an occasion like this.

        •  ?? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          I think I'm on the record as having nothing but d for West, but this comment Way over the top.

          "nothing but d"?  What does that mean?

      •  That's "Dr. West" to you. Do you know (8+ / 0-)

        anything about the man? Or do you just hate him because he had the gall to call out the President? Do you feel the same about Maxine Waters?

        He has written extensively (since 1979) about racism in America. And your assertion that "most Black people do not support West's antics" is bullshit until you back it up with cites. And if you choose this one, FAIL.

      •  Truth n/t (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        by lollydee on Sun Oct 16, 2011 at 05:49:54 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  it's not disgraceful at all - he is not bringing (5+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        neaguy, pot, Agathena, DampSquid, kurt

        attention to himself (actually he had a lot of competition today when you talk about getting some attention).  He is bringing attention to a cause and that is pretty much the same as MLK was fighting for.

        If the GOP is using Herman Cain as a mask to cover up their true colors vis a vis any policy issues of importance to people of color, what kind of mask is Dr. West supposedly for a "certain faction of progressives". What do those progressives want to cover up ? And why should Dr. West be a tool for such cover up?

        I like to understand...

        •  No (5+ / 0-)

          This cause is NOT the same as what Dr. King was fighting for.  It is important and inspiring, but it is NOT the same.  

          I suggest you Google the lynching victims of the civil rights movement who died and compare the crackdown from the government to what's happening today.  As far as I know, no one has thus far been driven to a road where they were executed for trying to register voters.  


          by lollydee on Sun Oct 16, 2011 at 06:14:35 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  do you mean that Dr. West is belittling (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            divineorder, DampSquid, pot, kurt

            the struggles, sacrifices and horror events of the past?

            I would never compare the police actions against the civil rights activists of the sixties with anything that happens today.

            Has Dr. West done such comparisons or do you think he would actually put them on the same level? I can't imagine he ever would.

            The more or less staged arrests of today's demonstrations are just a sign of helplessness. People can't get their voices heard and have nothing else in their toolbox than engagement in this non-violent civil disobedience "theatrics".

            I don't mean that in a derogatory way. I think it's just a sign that today's demonstrators haven't found a way to resist and dissent with other methods than those they know from the past. The don't get arrested against their will, they seek arrests on purpose by searching for ways and spots where they do something "harmlessly illegal".

            So, they get the media exposure (and the reaction that their actions are phony)  

            But I think everybody knows that, don't you think? What would you suggest people of the intellectual caliber of Dr. West should do politically? Not speaking at all? Not participating?

            •  No... (3+ / 0-)

              He shouldn't stop speaking, but to do it on the same day as MLK's memorial?  That was, as my mom put it earlier, "Kind of Triflin."   By him speaking for OWS during that showed serious lack of deference for the event.  It didn't compliment it.  If anything, it turned a lot of folks off.  My historically black sorority message board was BLOWING UP with anti OWS stuff all day because of this and, ironically, I'm over there defending it.

              I guess I'm sort of apathetic about Dr. West - although that one commenter was right.  A lot of us POC aren't fans, but that's because he's been known to jump to where the spotlight is.  

              I get the theatrics. I even think that a lot of folks in the AA community get the frustration that's happening now, but the only difference is that we're used to it.  None of this is new to us.  Hard to get jobs, huge student loans, poor or no medical care?  Nothing new.  So why the outrage now?  Because it's finally made it's way to middle class white folks?  NOW this matters?

              Making any sense?  It's close to my bedtime.  Forgive the typos.


              by lollydee on Sun Oct 16, 2011 at 07:27:35 PM PDT

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              •  What is a more appropriate way of honoring... (6+ / 0-)

                ...the dedicaton of the MLK Memorial and his legacy than to be arrested in an act of nonviolent civil disobedience?

                "If I can't dance, then I don't want to be in your revolution"--Emma Goldman

                by ehrenfeucht games on Sun Oct 16, 2011 at 07:46:51 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Do it (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  science nerd

                  On a different day so it doesn't look like you're just trying to upstage our first AA President.  


                  by lollydee on Sun Oct 16, 2011 at 08:15:21 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  How is this any different from the longstanding... (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    DampSquid, kurt

                    ...annual tradition in this country of celebrating MLK's birthday by scheduling CDs and other types of protests on that day?

                    Or has that been poor timing, too?

                    "If I can't dance, then I don't want to be in your revolution"--Emma Goldman

                    by ehrenfeucht games on Sun Oct 16, 2011 at 08:54:40 PM PDT

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                  •  Finally the Mask is Off (0+ / 0-)

                    So your hatred of West isn't about defending MLK. It isn't about any imaginary conflict between West's actions and MLK's work.

                    It's simply that West has criticized Obama. So he's "not Black enough" or something for your originally Black sorority. Maybe he's "too Black" for them - the uncle who used to be cool but now is dated and embarrassing. To adolescents who don't get their own living history.

                    The best way to honor MLK is to live his dream: pull the people together for economic justice with the dignity and humanity of your own position - without regard to race, class, gender or anything but the content of their character. That's also a good way to honor our first AA president - or anyone else who achieves despite the color of their skin. That's how West spent this weekend, as he evidently spends most of his days.

                    How did you spend the weekend, other than blogging with your sorority sisters?

                    "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

                    by DocGonzo on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 06:10:12 AM PDT

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                    •  Get off the cross, please (0+ / 0-)

                      It's getting crowded.  I don't hate Dr. West.  He's been around forever, it's just white folks are just discovering him and he's the newest 'inspiring negro'.  He's doing a good thing, speaking for OWS, but he's known in the AA community as an attention hog so its gonna take more than a publicity stunt to get us to rise and tear up and applaud.  

                      Also, your post is really riding on the personal there.  Does my Black Sorority offend you somehow?  It was founded because we weren't allowed to participate in the white ones, you know.  

                      I volunteer at a nursing home, just in case you're curious.  But watch your tone over here.  I'm trying to keep things respectful and I suggest you do the same.  If you want AA people to be honest with you then you better learn how to listen.


                      by lollydee on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 07:54:59 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Cross Yourself (0+ / 0-)

                        You're trying to keep things respectful by saying that I'm making myself out to be crucified? Not only is that disrespectful to say, it's especially disrespectful because it's totally baseless.

                        Just because you're not inspired by West doesn't mean he's not inspiring to other people. And when he inspires new people, especially White people who didn't know about him due to the racism inherent who gets celebrity or even public intellectual status in America, your boredom with him shouldn't interfere with his inspiration of them.

                        Your Black sorority doesn't offend me, nor did I say it did. If people in it dislike West because he's "not Black enough" (or not "New Black" enough), that doesn't offend me, either. I'm offended only by your actual offenses to me: your hypocritical remarks about respect.

                        And by your assertion that you can teach me how to listen to Black people, and how to get Black people to be honest with me. Mainly by your passing yourself to me as some kind of representative of Black people. I've got plenty of experience listening to, and being honest with, Black people - and people of all communities.

                        Also by your assertion that my post is "bordering on the personal", while you baselessly state that I can't relate with Black people. Offensive.

                        I was curious not so much what you did this weekend, but what you did to honor MLK this weekend. The weekend on which it was inappropriate for West to do what MLK did, and might still do. Unless you've got something more specific in keeping with MLK's legacy to mention, you didn't do anything to honor MLK except the kind of volunteerism that many people do every weekend without any real reference to MLK.

                        If you want me to listen to you, you've got to get off the high horse from which you're projecting, and do some better listening yourself.

                        "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

                        by DocGonzo on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 10:18:24 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Words that aren't mine. (0+ / 0-)

                          Funny how you keep doing that.  Nobody says he wasn't 'Black enough'.  Not me - I'm actually pretty melanin-ly challenged myself.  It's not about being Black, but it IS about culture and the willingness to understand where other people are coming from.

                          So basically, try harder.  Because it ain't a high horse, honey.  Its another perspective.  Funny, that.

                          And I'm gonna leave you with this; you don't know my experiences or anyone else's on here.  I saw you comment to a person who lost an eye during the struggle in the 60's.  Bet you didn't know that, did you?  And you were rude as hell.  Be inspired by him.  That's fine.  But don't use your entitled white person who thinks they're progressive outrage to come down and tell me how to feel or think.

                          And I think I've said over, and over on this thread that the only person I'm speaking for is myself.



                          by lollydee on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 11:41:39 AM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  Your Words (0+ / 0-)

                            I never used any entitled White person who thinks they're progressive. You did. But you just projected that straw man at me.

                            I don't know what you're talking about, so I have no reason to believe I was actually rude to anyone - since what you say is so consistently made up. But perhaps I was - I don't mind being rude to people who have earned it.

                            I don't need to know your experiences, or anything else but what you posted. Which includes you speaking to me as if you speak for Black people generally, like teaching me how to get them to be honest with me. As if you know my experiences.

                            You're an idiot. Goodbye.

                            "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

                            by DocGonzo on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 12:33:22 PM PDT

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                          •  Should Be HR'd (0+ / 0-)

                            Because I didn't resort to name calling, like you did.  'You're an Idiot' is a direct insult and goes against FAQ.  I won't HR it because we've been arguing over here, but some needs to.


                            by lollydee on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 12:42:20 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

              •  oh, that makes a lot of sense, especially (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:

                your frustration about why the outrage now, b because it's finally made it's way to middle class white folks. I made a comment recently just saying how sad it is that the whole movement started only when the majority of white middle class people are effected.

                Concerning the timing ... I didn't thought it would be much of a deal, Dr. West spoke after Obama and other speakers at the MLK memorial and for sure all the media attention was on the memorial and not on Dr. West. So ... other than the AA community nobody would even have realized it.

        •  progressives here (4+ / 0-)

          say Obama has lost his base. Progressives on this site like to use cornell west as an example that black people are angry at Obama.  

          Obama has the highest support from black voters. Black voters are a key part of the base. Obama is fine there.

      •  Statements of facts with zero proof. (0+ / 0-)

        #occupywallstreet "Either you taste, feel and smell the intoxication of freedom and revolt or sink into the miasma of despair and apathy. Either you are a rebel or a slave." -- Chris Hedges

        by pot on Sun Oct 16, 2011 at 06:39:46 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Name one thing that Obama has done (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        divineorder, John Kelly

        to help the black community.  I'll wait.

      •  The timing was disgracefull??? (6+ / 0-)
        It is extremely disgraceful for him to time this "arrest" during the weekend of a dedication in order to bring attention to himeslf.


        What would be a more appropriate time for an act of nonviolent civil disobedience.

        Traditionally, CDs and other protests in this country are often scheduled to coincide with MLK's birthday.

        Is that longstanding American tradition disgraceful, also?

        Should people just sit on their asses and do nothing simply because the MLK Memorial is being dedicated?

        "If I can't dance, then I don't want to be in your revolution"--Emma Goldman

        by ehrenfeucht games on Sun Oct 16, 2011 at 07:33:29 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  personal grievance? (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        DampSquid, pot, DocGonzo, kurt

        What has Dr. West done to help the black community? Have you ever taken a political science or sociology class in which the issue of race was addressed? If you have, I can almost guarantee a number of the texts assigned contained a number of references and contributions from Cornell West. His work certainly helped me to learn about the history of systemic oppression in this country.
        And frankly, he deserves our attention as he one of few who didn't fall head over heels with Obama's 'personae' and insists on keeping it real when it comes to unrelenting racial and economic inequality. To compare him to Herman Cain is ridiculous.

      •  Inspirational Leader (0+ / 0-)

        Since you evidently don't even know what West actually does, you should look into it. For most people West is an inspirational leader showing how taking a moral stand can be cool. Demonstrating what someone whose culture is of Black people can do, despite stereotypes. As a Harvard and Princeton professor, West has taught many later influential people - many of them Black, getting a role model - about Black people's lives and achievements.

        Now, you won't go so far as to call the 'certain faction of "progressives"' simply "racial fetishists" or something like that. Because if you did, it would be clear that you're just a racist. West can't be liked by people except as a minstrel clown, right? By people who aren't really "progressives", right? He's like Herman Cain, a token Black person who actively works against the interests of Black people. Except that's ludicrous when you see what West actually does with his life.

        West says he was inspired to be arrested by his memories of MLK and his legacy. His arrest drew further attention to the Occupy demonstrations, including among some Black people and others who might not have identified with the Occupy movement yet. Doing it on the weekend MLK's monument was dedicated is totally appropriate.

        What did you do this weekend to support King's dream? Did you spend hours in custody at a police station, instead of maybe at some VIP room at a Prince concert or writing a popular book, like West could have?

        You're jealous of the attention West gets, regardless of the substance he gets it for. You're riding his coattails by posting this hollow, venomous thread.

        "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

        by DocGonzo on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 06:01:39 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  cornell west (0+ / 0-)

      has said some really stupid things like Obama is so "white" he could not understand black people.  He complains about the wars we are in. Why was he not protesting obama in 2008 when he said he planned to put more troops in afghanistan? Why was he not protesting his gradual withdrawal strategy?

      Cornell west never criticizes Bill Clinton like he does to President Obama. What is so different about Bill Clinton?

      It is ridiculous.

      •  Here is a GUESS! (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Cream City, kurt

        Bill Clinton is no longer in fucking office and hasn't been for at least TEN years? Nah, that couldn't be it.

        #occupywallstreet "Either you taste, feel and smell the intoxication of freedom and revolt or sink into the miasma of despair and apathy. Either you are a rebel or a slave." -- Chris Hedges

        by pot on Sun Oct 16, 2011 at 08:15:22 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  It's hard not to agree with him. (0+ / 0-)
      •  Actual Quotes (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        John Kelly, kurt

        Where's the actual quote about Obama being "too White"?

        West did say Obama is

        a black mascot of Wall Street oligarchs and a black puppet of corporate plutocrats. And now he has become head of the American killing machine and is proud of it.

        Given how Obama has finally put a "bipartisan" Black face on protecting Wall Street crimes that have been worse for Black people than for anyone else, and has escalated America's killing machine even to the point of foreign extrajudicial assassinations of Americans, West is correct. Both in the facts and in his seeing Obama's actions as more connected to amorphous White America than to amorphous Black America.

        Complaining about the wars we're in is no sin. What's your point? That West supported Obama for election, but once safely elected tried to hold him to a higher standard than proudly running America's killing machine?

        What's ridiculous is the intolerance for Black people, or any people, who criticize Obama when his actions are bad for Black people, or for any people.

        "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

        by DocGonzo on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 06:19:24 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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