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View Diary: Poison in the Water, Corruption in the Air (22 comments)

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  •  If the rest of the content is right on target... (4+ / 0-)

    than how you get to "overeaching condemnation" about the conclusion?

    There is nothing over reaching about that conclusion about a White House administration that skirts the law to make a global warming Armageddon a done deal.  

    Do you think for one second that this will be stopped or have you seen any evidence whatsoever that Obama has any intention of calling for an independent study?

    If you find something then you have evidence of "overeaching condemnation." If not then you have a planet killer Democratic President to worry about.

    •  Thanks - a little more to work with (1+ / 0-)
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      burnt out

      Keystone XL is an incredibly important issue and every aspect, including the extremely bad way it has been handled to date, is important.  It is also a decision not yet made.  That's why it's so important to draw attention, not only to how stunningly bad an idea it is, but also every process problem, and every failure of honesty within the government at every step of the way.

      What matters is changing the course of the decision.

      Governments do, sometimes, respond to public pressure especially when those two issues are brought into public consciousness: (1) Very bad idea to benefit the few (2) corrupt process to get it approved.

      That's why I see the broader, dare I say Naderite, "no choice in 2012" statement as a distraction.  [It's what I considered the overreaching condemnation]  It draws you into the question of whether that's really true, and from an environmental point of view, it's not accurate, based on comparing 8 years of Bush to 3 years of Obama.  

      In 8 years Bush systematically dismantled environmental proections at every level.  Obama is put many of them back (simply by the action of getting EPA to enforce existing regulations that were on the books but ignored for 8 years).  A lot of that action is below the waves of the headlines.

      At a lightly higher profile, we have, for example, the new mileage standards, the cross-state air pollution rule, the EPA determination that CO2 is a pollutant regulated by the Clean Air Act of 1990 and in fact the start of issuance of EPA regulations based on this finding.  Other decisions (for instance delay of the ozone rule) have been bad ones (but note that this bad decision is the deferral of a rule that Bush was legally required to issue under the CAA and did not even take one step to do so).

      So in the department of no difference / no choice, do we really think that the EPA web site under President Perry would acknowledge Global Warming?  Come to think of it, would there even be an EPA?  

      President Obama has made some decisions which have been profounding disappointing to me, and obviously to many people.  This decision, not yet made, is a huge one.

      I strongly, strongly encourage everyone to draw attention to the folly of Keystone XL on every possible communication channel .

      •  Please don't put words in my mouth (0+ / 0-)

        I never wrote "no difference" and that is very different from "no choice." The fact that no Democrat will challenge Obama leaves me with the desperation of no choice.

        "No difference" would be the claim that a Republican President would make similar Supreme Court nominations and have a semi-functional NLRB. "No choice" means any Democratic voter who has held on to Democratic values will be left out in the cold.    

        President Obama has made many decisions which have been profoundly disappointing not just to you or me but extremely disappointing to any supporters who have been paying any sort of attention. Many of those decisions are also profoundly disappointing for the future of America.

        Correct me if I'm wrong here because Obama has taken much of my life long news junkie out of me but that EPA determination about CO2, wasn't that because of a Supreme Court decision? I do know that a functioning NLRB was a gift from Chief Justice John Roberts. I clearly remember when Roberts embarrassed Obama into making a recess appointment. I've also watched the "progress" of the candidate who promised a "green economy"  but lately I have not been watching closely enough to determine if the other two green benefits you've listed are actually being enforced.

        I do have trouble following lately but I did support and I was a follower when I saw a future. I think my long history here proves that.  I know many people here like to claim the the bully pulpit scenario that led to the extension of the Bush tax cuts and the way Obama manipulated the people out of the public option was caused by outside forces and they were. But it was not the Republicans, nor the media and it was not "bad advisers."  

        If and when this Keystone XL Pipeline decision goes down the way almost everyone is predicting some, like the comment below, will blame the media for the immoral act on one man. But there won't be a single Republican to blame and the media blame shifting will be just that, the truly loyal looking for a scapegoat.

        President Obama has lost my loyalty for life, he has even lost my belief that he is anything like a decent human being. I also do not subscribe to the claim that his decisions have been about getting along with Republicans. I was paying attention and his decisions have been about getting as much campaign money for the rich and for that I no longer hold him in high regard.

        But as much as he has lost my loyalty, Obama not lost my vote and that's just depressing. Sadly I don't think I'm anything like unique in those feelings but the true cost will not be a "President Perry." When the 2012 election comes, the real cost will be in the Senate and the House of Representatives.

        That's the reason I'm all about photo diaries now, I've got nothing anyone here wants to hear.

        •  You're right (0+ / 0-)

          You said "no choice", I interpreted "no difference".  To me, it's the difference that feeds the choice.  I'll choose "sucks less" at election time even if not my first choice; that's not for everyone.  You're right that for many progressives, Obama has moved a long way away from first choice.

          WRT the EPA determination on GHG, I think you have the order backwards.  The EPA issued a determination that CO2 is a pollutant regulated by CAAA of 1990 due to the harm of climate change.  That in turn caused at least one case to be mooted because the SC said (paraphrase): "EPA has determined that GHG are in their regulatory scope, go ask them to do something about it."  [Have to go to work now, can't find link right now but pretty sure that's right]

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