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View Diary: Ex-Gay Pastor Admits No One Ever Changed Sexuality (157 comments)

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  •  In other words, you're straight. (1+ / 0-)
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    nupstateny

    So, no wonder you "don't think it's necessary".  You can't go a whole tv advertisement break without seeing at least one example of heterosexuality.  You get to see examples of you all the time.  Gay people don't.  That's why it's necessary.  You think there's a lot of gay characters out there because it's a novelty to you.  But for an actual gay person, it's still rare to ever see a gay character.

    I remember when I found out that the "Ultimate" universe version of Colossus of the X-Men was gay; it was exciting.  You'd be busy going, "damn, another gay character, don't the gays have enough" while I'm going, "I'm surprised the writers had the courage to even bother including someone like me".

    •  Yeah, don't you feel silly (0+ / 0-)

      Don't try to determine sexuality based on comments.  I don't necessarily agree with orthodoxy on all points, but it doesn't mean I have to turn in my gay card.  I remember the days of everyone watching Dynasty because of a single gay character.

      And BS on it's rare to see a gay character.  To paraphrase Cartman, show me an independent movie and I'll show you a move about a gay cowboy eating pudding.  And it's hardly just independent movies any longer.

      So, again I say, relax Skippy; not because I'm straight but because I've probably be at this longer than you and may have a little perspective.  

      •  Do you have to be an ass? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        nupstateny

        I know you really want to look down on me, otherwise you wouldn't keep condescendingly calling me "Skippy".  I hope that does something for you because you must really have a void in your life if you need to put me down in order to make yourself feel better like you've down twice now.

        And thanks for your ageism.  It doesn't matter how long you've been "at this".  Kids are still killing themselves because they're being taught they're evil.  Having more gay characters, inclusively used instead of being "very special episode" style stories, goes a long way toward helping them know they're not alone in this world.

        You make me think of a dude who once told me way back when, "You've got Will & Grace and Queer Eye For The Straight Guy, what more do you want?"

        •  Again: you need some perspective (0+ / 0-)

          If you're going to try to throw up "gay suicide" in the context of a silly discussion of whether the producers of the Star Trek movie franchise need to include a gay character, I'm afraid that I do have a hard time taking you seriously.  When you resort to ad hom arguments, I take you even less seriously.

          That you are earnest in your beliefs is commendable, but you do need to try to keep things in perspective.  

          •  If you don't understand the necessity... (0+ / 0-)

            ...of gay kids growing up seeing characters in our stories with whom they can identify, then I cannot take you seriously.  I question your perspective; you clearly don't have a clue what it's like to feel the isolation of being a gay teen on the edge of suicide.  I do; I almost was one of those who almost killed themselves because society teaches being gay is evil.  I remember the first time I saw the movie Object Of My Affection and Paul Rudd's character kisses another dude, closed-mouthed; I started crying because I had never seen that before.  I had seen an endless parade of men kissing women, even fucking women, but never a male-male kiss.  I remember when I watched Jack come out to his dad on Dawson's Creek, and I couldn't breathe because everything he was feeling at that moment, I had felt.  And when Jack's sister threw their dad out, despite her desperately wanting their family back together again, because their dad hated Jack for being gay, I was overwhelmed.  How could someone else actually defend a gay person like that, when all I had ever seen was gay people attacked.

            Having gay characters is monumental in helping gay youth feel normal.  Straight people never have to go through that because you're told from the beginning of life that you're normal.  You see straight people in fiction all the time.  Like I've said, an advertisement break can't go by without some depiction of heterosexuality.  Only a straight person would think that there's enough depictions of homosexuality.  And only a straight person would not recognize the significance of having gay characters in stories.

            •  All very nice, but not relevant (0+ / 0-)

              No one is debating that it's helpful for gay kids to have positive role models.  Whether it's a necessity that those role models exist in pop culture - well, you'd have to believe that the world came into existence on 10/2/79 to believe that.  If you can't find a plethora of gay pop culture references, you're not looking hard enough.

              Ultimately, this seems to be a glass half full, half empty situation.  I admire that you look around and want more, but I hope that you do take a moment to try to imagine where the community came from and see where we are today.  

              And, that you stop and think a moment about the people who came before you and the things that they had to go through - you do have an imagination and access to community history, right?  I've held people's hands while they're dying and you want to lecture me about how I must be straight and that I don't get it?  You think you can talk to me about how kids are going to commit suicide if Star Trek doesn't include a gay character?  All I can say is that I hope you never have to have the experiences of the people who paved the road on which you walk.  So, wake up and work on using your imagination and empathy to gain some perspective.  That's about as politely as I can put it.

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