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View Diary: An Experiment I Always Wanted To Perform Gets Done... (35 comments)

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  •  My you are a bit of a jerk aren't you, one (0+ / 0-)

    your map is so small it's unreadable so I have no idea what you're measuring, just pv potential? and it's no better at your link.

    I'm talking a concentrated system that also uses the waste heat from cooling the chips to provide hot water and in utility scale systems to actually provide the heat for old style steam generators as well as the pv.....

    Of course the military wastes money, they also run a tight Nuke on shipboard which is another thing I mentioned but be sure to attack anyone who thinks a multi layered approach, the silver bb vs the silver bullet is better than all the eggs in the one falling basket.

    any answer on the waste stream from printed pv? I noticed you ignored that....there's some loss of output as I understand it so far but the cost savings is huge even factoring in the shorter lifespan and that was a few years back.

    And where I live 35 miles southwest of Tucson works wonderfully for PV alone let alone a hybrid system like I'm thinking about.....

    from your own link

    CSP technology has more than one form. Troughs, dishes and towers are the different forms available today. A CSP dish or tower looks like a modern glass sculpture and contributes aesthetically to the landscape. CSP systems can achieve 30 percent efficiency, or about twice the efficiency of standard photovoltaic cells (2 x .75 = 1.5 kilowatt-hours per square yard per day).

    Large Concentrating Solar Power plants create the thermal energy equivalent to conventional fossil fuel power plants. After the sun sets, CSP plants generate electricity from cost-effective thermal storage, providing 24-hour service to the power grid.

    Consider the solar energy potential of one acre of land. There are 43,560 square feet in an acre. Divide the number of square feet in one acre by 9 (the number of square feet in one square yard) and you find that there are 4,840 square yards in one acre of land. A CSP dish, tower, or trough receiving an acre of sunshine would yield about (1.5 kilowatt-hours per square yard times 4,840 square yards per acre) 7,260 kilowatt-hours of electricity per day, at 30% efficiency. One acre has enough solar energy potential to yield 7.26 megawatt-hours of electricity per day, using technology that exists now. (Each thousand kilowatts is one million watts. A million watts is a megawatt.)

    That's for utility scale production of course but a similar small system could be set up using CS PV and using the cooling fluid to generate all the hot water.  CPV brings the cell efficiency up to 30+% and the field is developing even more efficient cells as we speak....

    Nothing is the silver bullet, not solar, not nuclear not fossil fuels...It will take a combination of all and honestly centralized generation is becoming a possible national security threat that could be greatly diminished by grid tied PV, CPV with hot water generation as a side benefit (that could even be used for home heating in this climate)  and small scale wind.....If a person wanted to create serious havoc in this country, our power grid is highly vulnerable and could be very slow to repair depending on the method of attack......

    Vaya con Dios Don Alejo
    I want to die a slave to principles. Not to men.
    Emiliano Zapata

    by buddabelly on Tue Oct 18, 2011 at 01:53:10 PM PDT

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    •  Well thank you (0+ / 0-)

      Personally, I prefer the term "asshole," but jerk is acceptable.

      There's nothing like starting off your comment with an insult, is it? It's so refreshing to find such rhetorical freedom in the new regime of DailyKos moderation. It takes me back to better days.

      I'm sorry that the graphic is of such poor quality. If that really bothers you, then you are free to access the NREL website to see more detailed maps that provide essentially the same information at higher resolution. My map is sufficient to support my claim, however: the potential for solar power in Arizona is approximately only twice the potential in Ontario. FYI, the text in lower right corner reads:

      Model consists of annual average daily solar radiation using inputs derived from satellite and/or surface observation of cloud cover, aerosol optical depth, precipitable water vapor, albedo, atmospheric pressure and ozone resampled to a 40km resolution.

      Thus, this is a map of solar radiation, which indicates the potential for solar across the map, regardless of the technology used. Sure you can add additional components to the system. It's up to you, however, to demonstrate these additional components would justify the additional costs, which you have not done. I shouldn't have to discount every technology that your imagination can dream of.

      I'm trying to compare apples to apples -- that is, the performance of a similar system in Arizona -- because you seemed to claim that this system would perform "a hell of a lot" better in such a location. If twice as good counts as "a hell of a lot" better in your book, then you can believe your claim. I must disagree, however.

      It was not my intention to address every one of your claims, and it's disingenuous of you to try to shift the focus to "printed pv" which only you have mentioned. Similarly, staging a diversion to CSP technology (or "CS PV" or "CPV") is also mostly irrelevant to the focus of this diary.

      Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
      -- Albert Einstein

      by bryfry on Tue Oct 18, 2011 at 02:44:01 PM PDT

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      •  are you interested (0+ / 0-)

        in all of the ways that Dr. Piggott screwed up this experiment and analysis? I mean, really interested and you will keep an open mind? If so, I will happily enumerate them. If you are just looking for different ways to piss on solar, that's fine, just do me a favor and let me know so I don't waste my time.

        Causation was, is, and ever shall be a slippery bitch, so we're best sticking with noting the facts

        by jam on Tue Oct 18, 2011 at 04:09:43 PM PDT

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        •  In case you haven't noticed (0+ / 0-)

          This is not my diary. I'm just trying to provide perspective.

          If you want to "enumerate" your complaints in the comment section here, then I don't see why you need my permission. Please, let fly. Post a comment. Don't leave us hanging. But most of all, don't waste my time with stupid comments.

          Better yet, you should submit a letter to Environmental Science and Technology, which will be published in an upcoming issue, so that the readers of the original article have a chance to read your rebuttal. Of course, the author of the article will also have a chance to respond to your criticisms in this journal, so you should be prepared for that.

          Whatever changes you suggest, multiply the resulting energy by two and you get a rough estimate of what to expect in Arizona or New Mexico. That's all I'm saying. Do you disagree with that?

          Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
          -- Albert Einstein

          by bryfry on Tue Oct 18, 2011 at 04:31:49 PM PDT

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