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View Diary: Wealthy landlords want to shut down Occupy Wall Street permanently (113 comments)

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  •  It is worth quoting Justice Kennedy on (9+ / 0-)

    permits again.

    I suggest that the rule of law has three parts. The first is that the law is binding on the government and all of its officials. This may seem a rather self-evident matter, but it’s a proposition that most government officials in most countries do not fully understand. If an administrative agency and an administrator in that agency is charged with giving you a permit, the permit is not given to you as a matter of grace; it’s given to you because you are entitled to it and because it is his or her duty to give it to you. Very few countries in the world understand this. The rule of law binds the government and all of its officials.

    People to Wall Street: "LET OUR MONEY GO"

    by hannah on Thu Oct 20, 2011 at 01:49:19 PM PDT

    •  but that doesn't mean (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      johnny wurster, erush1345

      you are "entitled" to a permit whenever and wherever you want it, under what conditions you dictate.  If everyone has to be out of the park by 1 a.m., it's not unconstitutional to kick out the left, right, or center, as long as all of them get kicked out.  

      Perhaps a month in, it's a decent time to declare victory and move on to the next project, whatever that may be.  Did anyone really think this could be sustained indefinitely?  More importantly, if it could, why?

      "This world demands the qualities of youth: not a time of life but a state of mind[.]" -- Robert F. Kennedy

      by Loge on Thu Oct 20, 2011 at 01:53:18 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  There has to be a valid reason to (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        martini, 4Freedom, kyril, shaharazade

        deprive the public of the use of a public space.  Permits are issued for the convenience of public officials.  If the basic information about who's taking out the permit and for what purpose is provided, then the permit must issue.  It's the same rationale which requires marriage licenses to be issued to same gendered couples.  The activity being contemplated is presumed to be good and legal, a companion, if you will to the presumption of innocence, until proved otherwise.
        It is the same rationale which frustrates environmentalists when permits to pollute are issued based on the long-standing assumption that the natural environment is the appropriate repository of wastes of all kinds and the failure of our legislatures to distinguish between organic and inorganic concentrated toxins.

        A license to operate a motor vehicle is different because the motor vehicle is a potentially lethal machine and requires special expertise to operate. Ditto for a truck.  A taxi is different because it is engaged in commerce and the commerce clause is far-ranging.

        People to Wall Street: "LET OUR MONEY GO"

        by hannah on Thu Oct 20, 2011 at 02:06:49 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  i suppose since Zuccotti park is always lit (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          erush1345, martini

          there's not a real safety risk, but it does seem to me that there has to be some way to share the use of the park among people who want to protest, people who want to counterprotest, and maybe some people who just want to eat lunch outdoors.

          "This world demands the qualities of youth: not a time of life but a state of mind[.]" -- Robert F. Kennedy

          by Loge on Thu Oct 20, 2011 at 02:11:57 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  i don't see anyone stopping any counter protesters (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            OHdog, martini

            into the park and don't imagine too many people will be wanting to eat their lunch outdoors in the middle of the night, but even if they do, I imagine they'd be welcomed. The only counter protesters would be teabaggers and they've had their say for what now, three years? It's our turn now, Media hasn't listened to us or given us a voice so  now we are taking matters into our own hands.

            OWS-----Too Big To Fail

            by burnt out on Thu Oct 20, 2011 at 04:15:15 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  No one cares but Brookfield. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              martini

              That lonely little acre of concrete in a deserted business district had no residential users before the Occupiers showed up.

              At this point, far more people have now been arrested for protesting Wall Street's mortgage fraud crimes than have been for committing and presiding over them.

              by Scott Wooledge on Thu Oct 20, 2011 at 07:20:17 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  The city council likely has every power to act ... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          martini

          ... to close down the park unless there is a compelling judical counter-arguement argument. The city council will likely only need a rational basis for changing the law -- a reason that need not even be grounded in some real fact -- to make the change. OWS will have to flex its political muscle, move on to another location, or engage in civil-disobedence.

          Voting In Righteous George michael Is Noble

          by DeanObama on Thu Oct 20, 2011 at 07:37:15 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  No, any deprivation of rights has to (0+ / 0-)

            be warranted, usually by a prior commission of a crime by the person being deprived.  Wholesale deprivation because of what might happen is un-constitutional.

            But, keep in mind that lots of un-constitutional laws are passed and enforced until someone objects strongly enough. Getting the Congress to rescind DADT was actually a more potent act than having it declared un-Constitutional for the simple reason that the courts have no enforcement powers. So the City Council should be tasked with rescinding these un-Constitutional deprivations of human (not civil) rights. To be in a public space does not deprive any individual of a human right.  The convenience of public servants is not dispositive.  Though they'd like it to be.

            People to Wall Street: "LET OUR MONEY GO"

            by hannah on Fri Oct 21, 2011 at 01:28:45 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  So true. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        martini

        As the law is equally democratic in telling both the rich man and the poor man that they can not sleep under bridges, or raid another's garbage can for food.

        Workers of the world, unite! You have nothing to lose but your shackles. It is by the picket line and direct action that true freedom will be won, not by electing people who promise to screw us less than the other guy.

        by rhonan on Thu Oct 20, 2011 at 04:47:17 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  ah, but that proves my point (0+ / 0-)

          homeless people were already kicked out of the park all the time.  Here, the protesters seemingly do have homes to go to.

          "This world demands the qualities of youth: not a time of life but a state of mind[.]" -- Robert F. Kennedy

          by Loge on Fri Oct 21, 2011 at 07:14:48 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  ... but can NYC change the law ... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      martini

      ... to close down the parks at night? Executive officials cannot make the law, but legistlators can. Barring a constituional right to assembly at anytime you want, the NYC council has the right to close the park at night.

      It's up to OWS to make closing the park so unpopular that it is politically untenable for the NYC council to actually change the law, find an alternative protest site, or punish councilors who vote to push through the change. This is another test just as life is a series of tests.

      Voting In Righteous George michael Is Noble

      by DeanObama on Thu Oct 20, 2011 at 07:33:42 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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