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  •  I've worked for quite a number of years as Advance (4.00)
    Clinton, Gore and Kerry

    I rarely meet that many Republicans and if they are, they are REALLY Conservative Republicans.

    most are liberal leaning independents or Democrats.

    Most don't vote though.

    These are the ones I've had conversations with and if you are not familiar with how advance works. I usually work with SS on advance directives.... so all the rules we are debating, i help write them for the campaign and i work with SS.

    Everything is pre-approved ahead of time and the plan to remove protestors is pre-approved ahead of time.

    Typically, "We" tend to focus not on shirts, intent or bumperstickers. We are worried more about any signs they might bring in, to disrupt the camera shot or if they are overtly aggressive. And we never order the SS to expressly remove anyone, we instead order them to follow them, once they pipe up, our crowds take care of them quite quickly by overshadowing their yelping with our hollering and if they don't shut-up and get aggressive, we move them.

    if they shutup and stand there, SS is ordered NOT to remove them.

    Its just a different philosophy i guess we have compared to Republicans.

    But make no mistake, SS will carry out EXACTLY what the Campaign or office orders them to do, to the letter.  Never doubt that they will not do their job, even if it means tearing up the constitution.

    •  So are you one of the people I sue? (none)
      For the assault and false arrest I suffered after bringing a "Grow Hemp, Save Farms" sign to the Kerry appearance in Madison in October?

      This was not done by the Secret Service, who informed me their policy is not to prohibit signs, as long as they're not on poles.

      I am not currently Licensed to Practice in this State. Or Yours.

      by ben masel on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 11:06:34 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  no signs period (none)
        we tell everyone that and our field offices tell everyone that.

        No signs period.

        its a policy of the campaign, because all too often, innocent looking signs can have weapons hiden in them- I am not kidding, we have found razor blades embedded in wooden stakes before at rallies.

        Or with fold over signs, they hide weapons within the fold, or they bring a fold over Kerry sign and then  fold them back the other way and thus how "Kerry is a Nazi" signs get placed up front in front of the national T.V audience, like what happened in July.

        Now...if you REALLY, REALLY, REALLY want to bring light to an issue, you could probably convince a field staffer to put your sign up front ahead of time, and then hand it to you, once your inside.

        All these decisions are made by the field staff though ...

        •  i should ammend that (none)
          you can use our signs, that we create, for message reasons, to convey a national message to the national media, aka the over abundance of Fire Fighter signs, Pro-Choice signs, Environmental signs etc ...

          again, if you really wanted to make an issue out of something, clear it with the field staff first

          •  well... (none)
            I attempted 13 calls to the Madison office. A lot of "I don't know, there's no-one here who does..." One volunteer tried to connect me with staff. I overheard him tell her "Say whatever it takes to get rid of him."

            I had no pole, just a foamboard. I wouldn't have objected to a thorough search. The issue was indeed message.

            The Campaign's Street Use Permit, like all City of Madison Street Use Permits, covered the Street itself, not the sidewalk, and had a provision that "normal pedestrian traffic" not be obstructed. I, and my sign, are normal pedestrian traffic on West Washington Avenue.

            All that said, I place slightly more bame on the City police Captain in charge for the event, who failed to return 3 emails and 9 voicemails in the days preceding the appearance.

            nobody tells me i can't carry the sign of my choosing in a traditional Public Forum. Not even my friends.

            I am not currently Licensed to Practice in this State. Or Yours.

            by ben masel on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 05:17:07 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  draft debate (none)
      Yeah, thank your minions for shouting me down for challenging a democrat co-sponsor of HR 163 to debate the draft.
      Only thing different from the script you outline above is that 3 good democrats were moving towards me with hostile intent and police moved in to protect me from them.
      I'm glad you're talking about what you did.  I wish I could decipher your feelings about what you did.
      Why shouldn't an elected official be called on to defend her co-sponsorship of a bill that would violate the 13th amendment?
      Democrats are very like republicans in protecting their own.  This is unhealthy.  We need accountability not to the party, but to the people.

      Here's a phrase to add to your vocabulary, "Brown-Shirt Republicans"

      by Mosquito Pilot on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 12:10:22 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  my feelings are very different than how the job is (none)
        done...

        thus why i am writing this ...

        And oftentimes, the police are infact defending the protestor , not removing the protestor, sometimes they don't realize that they are standing in the center of a very angry mob that now wants to physically harm you. Perception is a bitch isn't it?

        And sure, as i said, to bring up an issue, i could tell you a number of ways to bring up an issue, ala, sneaking in fliers and scooting your way up front and waiting till right after the cameras, for the rope line and then accusing that elected official of whatever they did, RIGHT IN FRONT of the rope line cameras, and when they see something like that, its like a stop in time itself, those cameramen are like "WHOA!  OVER THERE! " and all of a sudden the lead story on the news that night is John Kerry blah blah blah blah... and State Senator Wishy Wosh was accused today of voting for blah blah blah after the rally, but you need to go WHERE THE CAMERAS ARE.  And you have to do something the advance team cannot stop nor suspect would even happen. Then hand the fliers to the camera people, the press team will flip out, cause you disrupted their pre-scripted event and will get blamed for it, but if you want an issue brought up, go ahead.

        And i will say something about the crowds, as I've been sort of a student of mob behavior doing all this... and oftentimes, you could be the most hardcore yellow dog democrat , and yell something at a rally and it could be PRO-DEMOCRAT. One person yells at you, and the WHOLE CROWD thinks your a protestor now. I've seen entire mosh pits form between entirely democrat crowds, all over a mistunderstanding.

        Why security is so important,its not just there for the candidate , its for the crowd.

        Thus, again in response to the comments above, no hand made signs , ever. Its caused too many problems in the past, TOO MANY PROBLEMS,  serious injuries and mob like riots.

        im sorry, but its just one of those things...

        If you want an issue covered, talk to your field staffer. The Field Staff job is grassroots and if they deem that its important enough to risk their job to help you get what you want to get done, its their perogative. The Field staff has a blank check inside the rallies, most of them are S pinned, which means are allowed within the security barriers. Field staff can smuggle just about anything in, no metal detector checks or anything, so if you want something done, get a field staff to do it for you.

    •  Different only in degree (none)
      This post depresses me.  All these events have become hollow, made-for-TV pap whether it's Kerry or Bush at the podium.  Make sure nothing "disrupts the camera shot".  Got to make sure our event is at least as tight and spontaneity-free as the other side's.  God forbid that anyone express a dissenting view, whether it's private or taxpayer-funded.  "Remove the protestors", unless they voluntarily make themselves totally invisible and inaudible.  

      I understand the political calculation, but let's just say it doesn't inspire me.  There's something dispiriting about politicians who can't face those they would (or do) govern.

      Let me state emphatically that we in the Bush administration do NOT condone torture. We sidle up to it, wink at it, and climb into bed with it.

      by turbonium on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 01:55:58 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  i agree 1000000% (none)
        man

        i really do

        i don't post here to tell you guys to put you in your place or tell you "the real story"

        I tell you what goes on in the back, behind the cameras, so that if you want to change it, you are armed with all the information possible to make these changes.

        You would not believe the POWER people have to sway a candidate by constantly bringing up , say this sign issue to a candidate.

        There were certain things that had to be changed about Kerry rallies that were done at Clinton rallies, because Kerry heard from one end of Mass to the other, to Iowa and NH about certain practices and Kerry made it a point to change those things and walla! they were changed, but ultimatly, the candidate makes the decisions, especially when people are bitching and he responds and wants something changed, and obviously HE IS AT all the rallies, so he can see if things were changed or not ...

        But if the presidential candidates don't HEAR the message, they just barrel down and keep business the same as it always has been.

        For example, SEIU and their "I'm a Healthcare Voter" signs and campaign all over the place. It was a major reason why Healthcare was made into such a large issue this year... you drove down almost any neighborhood in Iowa or NH and those damn signs were there, and thus WALLA, John Kerry, Edwards and Howard Dean were all making healthcare a MAJOR issue in the campaign- not that it would not have been anyways ( it IS a very important issue), but it took special emphasis, because the people scared the shit out of the campaign and the candidates that they were only voting for the "healthcare candidate"

        •  Thanks for your reports, Dour! (none)
          To act, one must first know what's going on at the ground level.  And I didn't see you as necessarily defending these practices.  As a realist, I even understand why they happen.  

          But I guess I'm still enough of an idealist to want a candidate who doesn't suffer from what I would call "information paralysis".  Candidates today are the "beneficiaries" of an extraordinary amount of field-polling and oppo-research and focus-group testing--an avalanche of feedback and advice, much of it flawed and misleading, some of it downright worthless.  

          When you have this much information at your disposal, you tend to respect it simply because it exists, and you operate on a conservative "best consensus" model that is essentially reactive and fear-based.  But because that tide of information produces many fluctuations in strategy, it also looks very wishy-washy (see Al Gore, 2000 presidential debates, demeanor during the course of--or the same with Bush in 2004).  

          Where all this ties in with your post is, some part of me wishes I didn't have to get together with my friends and "scare the shit out of" my candidates in order to motivate them or get things on their radar.  And if they didn't have this protective bubble of aides and lawyers and insta-polls, they'd have to decide issues the way most of us do: through some amount of research and deductive reasoning (hopefully!), guided by accrued wisdom and core principles.  

          Given the demands of modern campaigning, maybe that's impractical.  But it's what I felt Kerry did very effectively during the Vietnam years, and (ironically) it's the image Bush is cynically trying to fabricate.  I often wonder if the "real deal" wouldn't sell even better, even if it meant being occasionally out of step with the polls and displaying some rough edges to the cameras.  Those qualities are human, after all.

          Let me state emphatically that we in the Bush administration do NOT condone torture. We sidle up to it, wink at it, and climb into bed with it.

          by turbonium on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 10:51:50 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  The guy with no bubble (none)
            "And if they didn't have this protective bubble of aides and lawyers and insta-polls, they'd have to decide issues the way most of us do: through some amount of research and deductive reasoning (hopefully!), guided by accrued wisdom and core principles.  

             Given the demands of modern campaigning, maybe that's impractical.  But it's what I felt Kerry did very effectively during the Vietnam years, and (ironically) it's the image Bush is cynically trying to fabricate.  I often wonder if the "real deal" wouldn't sell even better, even if it meant being occasionally out of step with the polls and displaying some rough edges to the cameras.  Those qualities are human, after all."

            That's how Feingold played his Senate Campaign. You could go to his listening sessions and lay your rap on him. Good for 8% better than Kerry in this State. QED.

            I am not currently Licensed to Practice in this State. Or Yours.

            by ben masel on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 12:23:07 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  A question (none)
      Are you talking about campaign rallies or are you talking about taxpayer-funded meetings?

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