Skip to main content

View Diary: Occupy Oakland: What I Feared Came To Pass. Updates. Allie123 Released! (307 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  It really does NOT matter (24+ / 0-)

    whether the police are using rubber bullets, bean bags, water cannons, night sticks or any thing else that may be injurious in one way or another.  The bottom line is that the police are using excess force to supress peaceful protestors' free speech.

    I find this kind of concern trolling a form of diary hijacking that does not belong here.

    The United States is not just losing its capacity to do great things. It's losing its soul.--Bob Herbert. gulfgal98's corollary- We are fighting back to save our soul. Thank you, #OWS for empowering us all.

    by gulfgal98 on Tue Oct 25, 2011 at 10:47:23 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  It does matter (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jpmassar

      Widespread, erroneous and intentionally misleading reports of extreme violence (rubber bullets) and near torture (LRAD sound cannon) should be a legitimate concern.

      If you wish to debate the difference between necessary and excessive force, you should, that would be in everyone's interests. That said, tolerating flat out lies of police tactics could inflame the situation further, and actually increase to likelihood of someone getting seriously hurt.

      •  My point is that any force (6+ / 0-)

        used on the Occupy protesters was unnecessary and therefore, excessive. IMO, there was zero need for force, regardless of the type that the police may gave used.  I do not personally know (and neither do you unless you were there) if all these reports were intentional lies, misreporting by news sources or others, or even perhaps the truth.  What we do know is that force was used to evict the protesters under the cover of darkness.

        You seem to take the position that force was necessary and therefore, my statement is nullified since I personally do not know all the kinds of force that were used.  

        Of graver concern should be the fact that our Constitutional rights have been usurped by the Patriot Act.  

        The United States is not just losing its capacity to do great things. It's losing its soul.--Bob Herbert. gulfgal98's corollary- We are fighting back to save our soul. Thank you, #OWS for empowering us all.

        by gulfgal98 on Tue Oct 25, 2011 at 12:21:11 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I have no idea if force was necessary. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          jpmassar

          Everyone was asked to leave and they chose not to, instead opting for civil disobedience. Which is well and good, I have no problem with civil disobedience.

          As to whether or not any force at all, even the touching of a person, is excessive force is entirely debatable. And again, I have no problem with that debate. But for the record, I disagree.

          I do have a problem with the false claims of extreme violence in the form of rubber bullets and sound cannons. I strongly suspect that the persons who make these claims would welcome increased violence from both the police and the occupiers.

          •  On what do you base the following statement? (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            jpmassar, elwior, mrblifil
            I strongly suspect that the persons who make these claims would welcome increased violence from both the police and the occupiers.

            Hairsplitting over weaponry terms when the police are flat out attacking peaceful protesters IN THE DARK seems very suspicious to me.

            •  The dark has nothing to do with it (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              jpmassar

              Why in the world do people keep focusing on what time of day or night it was? Do the police become evil when the sun goes down?

              As for the difference between sound cannons and beanbags, it is not hairsplitting, there is a huge difference. A better question is why are people lying about the weapons.

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site