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View Diary: THIS IS HUGE! AFL-CIO is urging members to support and JOIN Occupy Wall Street! (126 comments)

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  •  You're conflating "democratic party" (7+ / 0-)

    with "force that changes our country."

    At this time, organizationally, nothing could be further from the truth.

    Only 25% of OWS supporters are Democrats (source), and the largest group (36%) don't identify with any party. The next largest after Dems are Greens (11%) and Socialists (11%). Democratic Party supporters are a vastly outnumbered minority of OWS supporters, so tribalistic, pro-party rhetoric isn't likely to do well there.

    It's a fallacy to make the strong claim "All Democrats are like all Republicans", but the empirical data suggest that, in general, Democrats and Republicans both tend to support the 1% over the 99%, even if a significant (but still minority) number of Democrats are on the other side of that schism.

    •  What about the progressive caucus? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Lefty Coaster, Evolutionary

      What if OWS allied with the progressive caucus in the House of Reps?

      Would you be opposed to that?

      Is there nothing the progressive caucus can enact or propose at the very least?

      Should they be lumped into a category that "tends" to support the 1% over the 99%?

      I think if OWS completely gives up every elected official and lumps all government officials together Republican and Democrats alike, runs the risk of turning into a protest movement against Government - which is exactly what the Tea Party jihadists want.

      But is this a protest movement against the Government (Republicans and Democrats sharing equal blame) or is it a protest movement about the Big banks and corporations who own all of the Republican Party and MOST of the Democratic Party aside from the progressive caucus and Bernie Sanders?

      We are the 99%. We are the new media.

      by GoogleBonhoeffer on Sat Oct 29, 2011 at 12:21:36 PM PDT

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      •  More the former than the latter I think, in the (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Lefty Coaster, Evolutionary

        sense that our government, and especially the banker and corporate enabling two-party system, is broken for all but the 1%.

        I'd be skeptical of any alliance with any congressional caucus that currently exists, but the progressive caucus seems the least antithetical to the OWS movement from my view.

        •  So how would you define OWS? (0+ / 0-)

          Is OWS a protest against the ruling class of bankers that have the politicians in their pocket?


          Is it a protest against the government itself?

          We are the 99%. We are the new media.

          by GoogleBonhoeffer on Sat Oct 29, 2011 at 12:58:37 PM PDT

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          •  Replace "that have" with "and" in the former and (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            aliagee, Evolutionary

            I would agree that is an accurate description. Separation of the two marks an inappropriate distinction.

            •  Major difference between bankers and politicians (1+ / 0-)
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              Do we elect bankers?

              Can we choose to not elect bankers?

              That's why you have to draw a distinction and if you don't, you're basically waging war on a Constitution that gives us the right to hire and fire our rulers in Government.

              Occupy Wall Street is a protest against Wall Street bankers and the policies that they implement through use of lawyers, guns and money, despite the fact that we do not elect them.

              So how is contrasting an unelected banker against an elected politician inappropriate?

              We are the 99%. We are the new media.

              by GoogleBonhoeffer on Sat Oct 29, 2011 at 02:50:18 PM PDT

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              •  The politicians they own are complicit. (4+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                3goldens, elwior, aliagee, Evolutionary

                Protesting a corrupt group of politicians isn't protesting the constitution or our form of government. As I understand it, the OWS protest is about more than just one or two components; it's about the systemic failure of our elected officials and the economic system which this country has had forced on it.

                •  True, most politicians are complicit (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Lefty Coaster, Evolutionary

                  But their bosses are the ones barking out orders.  

                  That's why Occupy Wall Street is more focused on the bosses and not their foot soldiers in either party.  

                  If Occupy Wall Street pushed for legislation/law, the only way to establish it is through non-complicit politicians (such as the progressive caucus), unless you have something else in mind.

                  If the only way to implement ideas is through elected leaders and you lump in elected leaders under one umbrella, the protest movement is negating at least one possible solution channel if not the only one.

                  We are the 99%. We are the new media.

                  by GoogleBonhoeffer on Sat Oct 29, 2011 at 03:10:44 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I think Occupies are working to change the (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:

                    viewpoint of elected leaders, and will not go home until they see actual, concrete change for the better, and not just a little change.  The government needs to be reminded once in awhile that it is the People that the Government serves, not the other way around.  The power brokers need to be reminded once in awhile, that they are only here at our pleasure, and collectively, if we have enough Americans speaking up that crimes are being committed, and not equally punished, they will be expelled or imprisoned, just like British Royals were expelled from America in 1774.  They asked nicely first, but were refused their liberty.  So, the Americans kicked them out.  King George responded with combat troops.
                    Guess what?  There are no combat troops that will now fire on American Citizens Peacefully Protesting are there?  Not even the National Guard.  Things have changed since Kent State.  Military Vets are on our side now.

                    #OccupyOMC - "We have a permit, its called The Constitution".

                    by Evolutionary on Sat Oct 29, 2011 at 10:26:01 PM PDT

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            •  That's pretty clever :). (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:

              Banker CEO's, and bonused Investment Houses/Banks - along with politicians - are the focus of the protests.  Count how many members of Congress are millionaires or richer.  Guess how many? Guess how many play the stock market?

              #OccupyOMC - "We have a permit, its called The Constitution".

              by Evolutionary on Sat Oct 29, 2011 at 10:14:51 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

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