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View Diary: Black Kos, Tuesday's Chile (240 comments)

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  •  Well Tom - what bothered me most was folks (19+ / 0-)

    trying to tell us that it isn't a minstrel show.  

    He is a perfect shield for TeaParty types to holdup to deflect charges of racism. AND he knows it.  

    "If you're in a coalition and you're comfortable, you know it's not a broad enough coalition" Bernice Johnson Reagon

    by Denise Oliver Velez on Tue Nov 08, 2011 at 03:03:13 PM PST

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    •  I didn't see that diary but I don't (10+ / 0-)

      know why people would argue he is not acting like a minstrel show if many black folks saw it that way.  I also think many black folks would.  

      As for his argument that he is more "authentically" black than Barack Obama, to me that is racist and insulting.  It assumes it is not "black" to go to Harvard Law School and be intellectual.  

      I'll have to go look at that diary when I get time.

      He is a walking definition of an opportunist in the worst way.  I agree that he knows it.

      More jobs equal less debt, even our kids can understand that.

      by TomP on Tue Nov 08, 2011 at 03:13:03 PM PST

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    •  I just read the diary and a lot of comments. (11+ / 0-)

      It's clear he is criticizing Cain and talking real issues.  It's harsh, but Cain earned it.

      I don't understand all the HRs.  One person who has been here a long time (and a core Obama supporter I knew from the primary wars) Hred for "perpetuating racial stereotypes."  But I don't see Chancey as doing that at all.  He is attacking Cain for playing a role that racists want him to play.  The birth of a Nation reference makes that clear.

      Some people seemed to have thought Chauncy was white, it seems.

      He did a good job of staying calm and responding to people.   He's a good addition to Daily Kos.  

      More jobs equal less debt, even our kids can understand that.

      by TomP on Tue Nov 08, 2011 at 03:43:35 PM PST

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      •  thank you (10+ / 0-)

        Appreciated. i don't cross post all my stuff and my do so more. But as I am learning there is something really ugly and pernicious going on here.

        I wonder if the folks involved get it. reading the comments here I was reminded of something my godmother used to say about not trust self-identified card carrying white liberals. good white folks who hustle and are down like jon brown don't need to play it up.

        i think she may be right.

        •  Hi Chauncey (5+ / 0-)

          As I said above, you're right. Some of the HR's came from folks who didn't get it. Your analysis may have gone over their heads (or around them, or whatever). It required quite a bit of prior knowledge of history and culture, some of which you and Denise provided in the comments.

          My forthcoming book Obama's America: A Transformative Vision of Our National Identity will be published in Summer 2012 by Potomac Books.

          by Ian Reifowitz on Tue Nov 08, 2011 at 05:36:29 PM PST

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          •  kind of (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            poco, TomP, GenXangster

            you thanks. that is the dilemma i can't and refuse to do the teaching.

            that is how white privilege works. instead of those who didn't get the history deciding to 1) be quiet or 2) do some work and then come or 3) ask honest questions, they assumed authority.

            bad look. especially when operating against someone who knows a bit more about a topic than they do. i was taught to be quiet and listen if i didn't know something and to ask fair questions.

            i wonder if some folks who are more privileged miss that lesson.

            •  Exactly. Assuming authority over what racism is (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              mahakali overdrive

              and to BLACK people. How much more paternalistic can you be and not know it? It's astounding what being privileged does to people.

              I've also had men downplay the level of sexism towards women that exists in the world. I has to be privilege that makes people make fools of themselves like that.

              "It's not enough to acknowledge privilege. You have to resist." -soothsayer

              by GenXangster on Tue Nov 08, 2011 at 10:11:11 PM PST

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      •  clear to you - but it sure wasn't clear (6+ / 0-)

        to some folks.

        Anyway - he's in here right now so you can tell him yourself :)

        "If you're in a coalition and you're comfortable, you know it's not a broad enough coalition" Bernice Johnson Reagon

        by Denise Oliver Velez on Tue Nov 08, 2011 at 03:55:43 PM PST

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    •  thanks (11+ / 0-)

      for posting this here at black kos.

      the fracas was very "illuminating."

      In my little time here there is much to suggest that whiteness and white privilege do some pernicious work that many white "progressives" don't seem to get.

      I have thought much about liberal racism. My instincts and research on it were demonstrated true yesterday.

      I will shortly be posting a followup tonight. I doubt it will soothe any feelings as I am going to explain what I have learned thus far.

      I was warned about some of the antics re: black posters on Kos and the element of cyberbullying w. the HR deal.

      I know that my style is not for everyone which has gotten me both more attention than I think I am worth, but I will enjoy the ride. I also think that I annoy some of the folks who want me to desire and seek out approval. That is another aspect of myopic whiteness that needs to be called out--black and brown folks don't need the approval of white people to comment, think, write, challenge, or provoke. We ought not to be put in the position of having to ego stroke or give a pass for racism.

      I sense I may very well be banned. So I am going to speak my mind now and let the chips fall where they may.

      •  Well - I'm glad your voice is here - even when we (7+ / 0-)

        disagree (busting the myth of the monolith)

        Don't get yourself banned just yet please.  You have things to say that need to be heard.

        "If you're in a coalition and you're comfortable, you know it's not a broad enough coalition" Bernice Johnson Reagon

        by Denise Oliver Velez on Tue Nov 08, 2011 at 03:53:52 PM PST

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      •  No, please don't get banned! (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        sephius1, Denise Oliver Velez

        I have always enjoyed your opinions here (even when I've disagreed with some of the manner of your writing--missed the last diary, so will go and read it tonight) and I want to continue to read your work.

        It's *Gandhi*, not Ghandi

        by poco on Tue Nov 08, 2011 at 05:39:25 PM PST

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      •  White liberal racism (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Denise Oliver Velez

        Please try and think deeply before assuming the worst. I really think a lot of these critics of yours were trying to show they oppose racism, but did so in a misguided way. Also, it's not about the white readers thinking that a black writer needs their approval. When you or anyone posts on a site open to comments, people are going to comment. It's not about approval it's about just reacting. This isn't white privilege either, and that's a term that has been stretched beyond any useful definition in the past couple of months, but that's another topic. On a site where people comment, people are going to comment, that's it. Again, I thought your analysis was spot on, and very strong. But I understand where the HR's were coming from (in the case of the well-intentioned, anyway), b/c that might have been me as a younger, less-well read person just trying to show that I agreed that racial epithets were "bad."

        My forthcoming book Obama's America: A Transformative Vision of Our National Identity will be published in Summer 2012 by Potomac Books.

        by Ian Reifowitz on Tue Nov 08, 2011 at 05:40:36 PM PST

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        •  The point is not even about the words. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Chitown Kev, mahakali overdrive

          It's about the fact that these white liberals ought to know more about black people, period. They don't know shit about us and they don't have to because everything caters to white people, everything is for white people, even this progressive site where a black man can't call Herman Cain's cornbread ass a minstrel show on fire without white people coming in and saving the day. Saving black people from criticism from other black folks who vote for THEIR GODDAMN PARTY. Do they not see that this is why black people have really no place in that other party? Blacks have to debase themselves to be liked by GOP racists. Fuck him and fuck them, too.

          We have been turning our backs on race traitors like Herman Cain since the slave ship. We use hard, harsh words to criticize them and you would, too if your freedom was dependent on whether one of these Negroes was a snitch or not.

          If Daily Kos has such a template that black people can't talk the way they normally talk to each other about these snitchin and dancin and singin for favor-ass motherfuckers like Herman Cain, Daily Kos has a serious problem when it comes to the comfort level of POC around here. If it has a problem, it's not chauncey's fault. It's the fault of white privilege that exists here and everywhere. This place is obviously not immune.

          But you'll probably still not get what I'm saying and keep making it about the words. They're clueless, Ian, is what I'm trying to tell you.

          "It's not enough to acknowledge privilege. You have to resist." -soothsayer

          by GenXangster on Tue Nov 08, 2011 at 10:26:23 PM PST

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    •  Agreed, ESP if u read RW websites (0+ / 0-)

      it is really clear there.

      The oppressor uses  many tools including a clueless oppressed as a shill.

      The radical Republican party is the party of oppression, fear, loathing and above all more money and power for the people who robbed us.

      by a2nite on Tue Nov 08, 2011 at 06:56:46 PM PST

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