Skip to main content

View Diary: Clint Eastwood Doesn’t Give A F*ck About Gay Marriage (221 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  If I really look at my circle of friends, (28+ / 0-)

    including a really extended look at "old" friends I'm only sporadically in contact with and old work colleagues, I would say that in reality, most of my friends are straight. This is because most people are straight.

    If I look inward towards my close circle of friends, it gets closer to 50/50. My two best friends in the world: one is straight, the other is gay.

    I have to say, that among my gay friends, some of them oppose same-sex marriage on ideological grounds (the old "I don't want to be oppressed by a straight institution" or "marriage is bourgeois" or "marriage is societal oppression", a lot of which boils down to "I want to screw who I want"). NONE of my straight friends give a shit whom I marry.

    Of course, I have some pretty awesome friends.

    Seeing these straight guys say this stuff is great. Because it doesn't matter. It doesn't impact them. They know it. They're not bigots. That's nice to know.

    Capitalism may be our enemy, but it is also our teacher. --V.I. Lenin equalitymaine.org

    by commonmass on Mon Nov 07, 2011 at 10:01:27 AM PST

    •  Its funny how I don't even know (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      commonmass, elmo, joe shikspack, ozsea1, kyril

      With my close friends, of course I know. But with the wider circle of friends and acquantences, I just don't know.

      Being gay or not being gay is so well prevalent and accepted in my hometown and many of the places I've lived, and where I currently live, I just don't notice.  And it's more than that: there are many single people, well into their 30s and even 40s, that being uncoupled doesn't mean being a 'confirmed bachelor" as it used to. And also, having close same sex relationships don't carry any particularly special meaning.  Unlike how two women who lived together up to the 1960s. where "sisters" or "cousins."

      Its just like how gay and lesbian issues cross over with transexual issues.  LGBT being about human sexuality.  And in that way, I don't see the struggle for LGBT as distinct from all our struggles, "straight' and otherwise, against conservative religious mores and distinct.

      Simply put, you and I are brothers.  Your fight for equality, life and liberty is not your fight.

      It's our fight.

    •  Huh. Well, frankly (6+ / 0-)

      I'm one of those "marriage is societal oppression" types, but that doesn't make me oppose same-sex marriage.  My attitude is, if you want in on it, come along.  I may not believe in marriage, but I believe even less in segregation.

      Just because I don't want to join the country club doesn't mean you should be legally prohibited from doing so.

      Being ignored is the difference between being a one percenter and an American.--sweeper

      by SouthernLiberalinMD on Mon Nov 07, 2011 at 12:06:09 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Well that's completely reasonable. (6+ / 0-)

        I've got a co-worker who is gay, and is very much against marriage equality for exactly the societal oppresion reasons you mention.  We sometimes argue about it.  I'm straight and married, and outwardly I seem somewhat conservative even though my politics are not.  I can't see any rational or moral justification for denying same sex couples full marriage rights.  I confess to being sometimes a little annoyed with this co-worker.  

        The pressure to form a legally binding couple can be oppressive.  But people's circumstances change over time, and what was once oppressive may not be if one meets a particular person, and/or one is in a different stage of life in which pairing up feels right.  Straight or gay, give people options and don't force them.

        Anyway, even if most gay people shared my co-worker's  antipathy toward marriage, I'd still be in favor of full equality just to piss off sanctimonious religious nuts. That's sufficient reward in itself.

        “If the misery of the poor be caused not by the laws of nature, but by our institutions, great is our sin.” Charles Darwin

        by ivorybill on Mon Nov 07, 2011 at 01:56:55 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I occaisionally meet gay people (6+ / 0-)

          who oppose marriage equality on that "We'll be assimilated and it's oppression" nonsense.

          I really fail to see why being FORBIDDEN by to government to participate in an oppressive institution seems better to them than volutarily declining to participate of their own free will?

          I doubt I will ever marry. I still fought like Hell to obtain the right to last year.

          0: Number of Wall Street bankers arrested over economy crash of 2008. 3350: Number of Americans arrested protesting their fraudulent practices as of 11/06/2011

          by Scott Wooledge on Mon Nov 07, 2011 at 02:59:23 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  exactly. n/t (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            kyril

            Being ignored is the difference between being a one percenter and an American.--sweeper

            by SouthernLiberalinMD on Mon Nov 07, 2011 at 03:41:37 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  Assimilation (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            kyril, The Werewolf Prophet, KenBee

            You know what I find refreshing?  We hire a lot of college interns - and often I don't have a clue whether they are gay or lesbian or straight.  The non-profit I work for is particularly gay-friendly as many of the staff (and the president) are gay, and we do a lot of work on various issues related to gender.  So we recruit undergrads and law students and other interns who are going to be interested in these issues and pretty open to begin with.  But I swear, each year they seem more integrated and, well, more assimilated. You said this in your diary, comparing straight guys to gay men, which while true, is also tragic:

            See, they aren't dealing with a lifetime of feeling shameful and unworthy...

            Now I know that some of these young people had difficulties growing up gay or lesbian in high school, but many of them didn't - they grew up in supportive families and went to high schools and then colleges where there has been a profound cultural change.  Their lives don't seem to be constrained by their sexual orientation, and I hope it always stays that way.  Along with that comes a level of mutual comfort among straight and gay young people.  The straight ones don't feel uncomfortable around the gay/lesbian students, and in turn the gay/lesbian students don't feel the sort of subtle mistrust and concerns of bullying.  I know most of these kids are urban or suburban, usually from educated families, and are not representative of US society at large. I would never claim that all high school and college kids experience this idyllic situation.  But it does seem to me that a lot of change has happened.  

            What does this have to do with assimilation?  There's plenty of room and there always should be for subcultures that gay and lesbian people can own, and can find some separation from the wider society if they wish, in aspects of their lives.  That goes for any self-defined group of people.  But participation is going to be less driven by rejection by the rest of society, and more by affirmative choice.  That's altogether a good thing. I have an older brother who is terribly scarred by growing up when he did, and living where he does.  It's different with these students.  They're not ashamed and they're not running scared. I don't know if that's assimilation or not, but it's a damn fine thing to see.

            “If the misery of the poor be caused not by the laws of nature, but by our institutions, great is our sin.” Charles Darwin

            by ivorybill on Mon Nov 07, 2011 at 03:41:56 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  I agree. (0+ / 0-)

              I have noticed in the younger generation of LGBT activists there is a fierceness that I speculate is born of being raised in a better environment. Many carry far less baggage than earlier generations, and act accordingly.

              I am kind of in the middle, at 44.  Not as repressed as some of my elders, but it's work. It doesn't come as seamlessly as some of the 20-somethings.

              0: Number of Wall Street bankers arrested over economy crash of 2008. 3350: Number of Americans arrested protesting their fraudulent practices as of 11/06/2011

              by Scott Wooledge on Mon Nov 07, 2011 at 05:17:46 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

          •  yeah, it puzzles me how queer activists (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            kyril, Clarknt67

            who abhor marriage as an institution adore the brute arm of the government when it forces gay people not to make the radical mistake of conformity.

            Not that I ever want to say anything to hurt the feelings of a queer activist. Mostly I try to save my barbs for fundamentalists.

            Just so you know.

      •  Support gay marriage... (0+ / 0-)

        because straight people shouldn't be the only ones to suffer.

        --Shannon

        "It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." -- Emiliano Zapata Salazar
        "Dissent is patriotic. Blind obedience is treason." --me

        by Leftie Gunner on Mon Nov 07, 2011 at 05:16:55 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

  • Recommended (137)
  • Community (67)
  • Elections (26)
  • Environment (25)
  • Culture (24)
  • Media (23)
  • Science (22)
  • Civil Rights (22)
  • Law (22)
  • Trans-Pacific Partnership (21)
  • Josh Duggar (20)
  • Labor (19)
  • Economy (19)
  • Ireland (17)
  • Rescued (17)
  • Memorial Day (17)
  • Marriage Equality (17)
  • Bernie Sanders (16)
  • Republicans (16)
  • Education (16)
  • Click here for the mobile view of the site