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View Diary: Public Radio’s Warren Olney Links Penn State Scandal To LGBT People’s Adoption Rights (203 comments)

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  •  Warren Olney is generally (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Red Bean, CajunBoyLgb, ozsea1, glorificus

    very good but I think he missed on this one as he has on occasion where he allows whacked-out opinion to be presented as fact in the same segment where someone presents a well-reasoned analyis of objective fact.

    I'll still listen him but will let him know he botched this one.

    Unapologetically pro-citizen. Not anti-corporation just very pro-citizen.

    by CanYouBeAngryAndStillDream on Sat Nov 12, 2011 at 09:21:55 AM PST

    •  I agree, but (0+ / 0-)

      I sincerely doubt he's accepting "whacked out opinion" as fact.  He ALWAYS has guests on with views we'd consider idiotic, but there'a ALWAYS a balance and Olney always confronts them on facts.  

      It's actually the kind of rational talk show that's the complete antithesis of Limbaugh and co.  

      I think he botched it; I also think his show, which actually IS 'fair and balanced', might unfortunately be too objective for most folks in the current media/political climate.  

      •  if he wanted to report objectively (13+ / 0-)

        He could have included what all the professional orgs, APA, AMA etc, have to say on gays adopting. And informed the audience exactly how far extremely right Jerry Cox is. Southern Poverty Law Center provides great background research into Cox and his organization's hate-mongering history.

        He did neither.

        Regardless, there is absolutely no excuse for taking two unrelated topics, "married man rapes children," "should gays adopt?" And pretend there is a connection.

        No defensible excuse at all.

        0: Number of Wall Street bankers arrested over crash of 2008. 3516: Number of Americans arrested protesting Wall Street's fraudulent practices 11/10/2011

        by Scott Wooledge on Sat Nov 12, 2011 at 10:51:32 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  check the guy out. (0+ / 0-)

          Seriously.  Stream some of his old shows on related issues.  

          •  I get it. You like him. (7+ / 0-)

            Even people we like and admire make mistakes they need to apologize for. Happens all the time. It's called being human.

            My respect and admiration for Dan Choi is well known. It doesn't mean I did, or ever would defend his "Harry Reid wil bleed" comment.

            Though Dan is no misogynist the remark was, and it was indefensible and he apologized. As well he should.

            Now, it's Onley's turn, if he wants to maintain some level of credibilty over Fox News on LGBT issues.

            0: Number of Wall Street bankers arrested over crash of 2008. 3516: Number of Americans arrested protesting Wall Street's fraudulent practices 11/10/2011

            by Scott Wooledge on Sat Nov 12, 2011 at 11:24:51 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  And I "get it": You're pissed. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              CanYouBeAngryAndStillDream

              I've got no issue with him apologizing.  He should -- and as I've said elsewhere I'd honestly be surprised if he didn't do a whole followup show about this very issue.  

              I got pissed because he was immediately characterized as a rightwing homophobe or at best a useful idiot for rightwing propaganda on the level of Fox News.  

              Both of these are complete bullshit.  If you don't know the guy and someone on this site who doesn't sound like a complete troll vouches for him, why not fucking check the guy's work out for yourself and see?  

              It's not just about "I like Warren Olney".  It's about progressives still dealing with FACTS and not just giving in to raw emotion every time our particular buttons get pushed.  It's not a way to reason or to win, in my book.  

              But that's just me.  

              •  We have little quarrel (7+ / 0-)

                We agree he should apologize. Which he has not.

                I will decline to agree he's a great guy until that plays out, as will most of the LGBT community he has hurt.

                0: Number of Wall Street bankers arrested over crash of 2008. 3516: Number of Americans arrested protesting Wall Street's fraudulent practices 11/10/2011

                by Scott Wooledge on Sat Nov 12, 2011 at 12:26:03 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

              •  and the Facts, as I see them, (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                dharmafarmer, YucatanMan

                Facts that seem to be of no concern to you is he produced a shitty show that defamed the LGBT community, and he has thus far only doubled down that he did nothing wrong.

                The LGBT community just is "confused."

                But we are not confused. We live with bigotry and hate-mongering everyday, in a way you and Onley do not.

                And we know bigotry and hate-mongering when we see and hear it.

                0: Number of Wall Street bankers arrested over crash of 2008. 3516: Number of Americans arrested protesting Wall Street's fraudulent practices 11/10/2011

                by Scott Wooledge on Sat Nov 12, 2011 at 12:54:08 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  I posted this an hour ago. (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Seneca Doane
                  After speaking with GLAAD, Olney issued an apology and agreed to clarify the error on-air on Monday.
                  "We apologize for any confusion about today’s “To the Point,” which dealt with both the Penn State child-sex scandal and the issue of same-sex couples as foster or adoptive parents.  The connection we intended to make was this: a suspected pedophile backed by a powerful institution was allowed to have foster children, while same-sex couples, who can provide loving families, are often denied that opportunity.  We'll air listener comments and further discussion on Monday's program."

                  This is how I figured he would deal with it.  You may see it as craven backpedaling or ass-covering, but again, knowing his work over the past couple of decades, I think it'll be more like a decent person owning up to and examining an honest mistake.  I know you and many others here are resistant to even entertain that possibility, but it does happen.

                  And for the record, you don't know WHAT kind of bigotry and hate-mongering I've lived with.  So thanks for that little assumption, as well as the assumption that I don't know bigotry or homophobia when I see it or wouldn't condemn if if I thought I did.  

                  •  So post it again. (0+ / 0-)

                    I posted it in the diary as well.

                    So what?

                    It amounts to "people who were offended are confused."

                    And yet nearly every LGBT person experienced the same "confusion" as well as many or most straight people.

                    As a journalist it is his job to be clear not confusing. He failed miserably.

                    What did seem clear is a married man raping children should somehow impact our perceptions of LGBT American's fitness to parent.

                    0: Number of Wall Street bankers arrested over crash of 2008. 3516: Number of Americans arrested protesting Wall Street's fraudulent practices 11/10/2011

                    by Scott Wooledge on Sat Nov 12, 2011 at 02:02:14 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Oh, I'm sorry (0+ / 0-)

                      I thought you wanted him to make amends, to apologize more clearly and to clarify his actual position on the issue and initiate more dialogue, which is what that statement said he's going to do on Monday...

                      Did I not understand you, or does it just not matter?

                      •  he says he intends to apologize (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        YucatanMan, dharmafarmer

                        the announcement he'd apologize came before this non-apology defense of his choices.

                        No one but he knows what he will say or do Monday.

                        I think, if he thinks he can read that statement on the air and consider it an "apology" he will be sorely disappointed by the reaction. It has already been rejected by GLAAD and most of the LGBT community as insufficient amends for the hurt his program visited on LGBT couples and their children.

                        0: Number of Wall Street bankers arrested over crash of 2008. 3516: Number of Americans arrested protesting Wall Street's fraudulent practices 11/10/2011

                        by Scott Wooledge on Sat Nov 12, 2011 at 02:26:38 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  The blockquote says he issued (0+ / 0-)

                          an apology and intends to clarify. Then it says he apologizes for the confusion. Sounds like two apologies. The first a general apology and the second an apology for the confusion which could be taken to mean his part in the confusion.

                          Unapologetically pro-citizen. Not anti-corporation just very pro-citizen.

                          by CanYouBeAngryAndStillDream on Sat Nov 12, 2011 at 04:51:55 PM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  GLAAD, PRI, KCRW, and To The Point (0+ / 0-)

                            Have only issued the "I am sorry you misunderstood and are confused" non-apology statement.

                            If he has issued a second real apology, I have not seen it.

                            And I am on GLAAD's press release mailing list. They almost certainly would be the first to forward it.

                            0: Number of Wall Street bankers arrested over crash of 2008. 3516: Number of Americans arrested protesting Wall Street's fraudulent practices 11/10/2011

                            by Scott Wooledge on Sat Nov 12, 2011 at 05:07:59 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I was referring to this (0+ / 0-)

                            http://www.dailykos.com/...

                            I wouldn't characterize that as you have. He apologized and apologized for THE confusion not "your" confusion.

                            Unapologetically pro-citizen. Not anti-corporation just very pro-citizen.

                            by CanYouBeAngryAndStillDream on Sat Nov 12, 2011 at 05:34:11 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  That is the same non-apology apology statement (0+ / 0-)

                            That I ran in full in the body of the diary. That blockquote is just from GLAAD's press release, which I also excerpt in the diary.

                            There has only been one statement, the non-apology "apology."

                            It remains to be seen if Monday Onley delivers a more satifying mea culpa on air.

                            I think GLAAD is pretty clear in their press release they do not consider the non-apology apology sufficient.

                            I am confident GLAAD will continue to discuss the objections, and try to clear up the confusion, which apparently is in Onley's mind.

                            0: Number of Wall Street bankers arrested over crash of 2008. 3516: Number of Americans arrested protesting Wall Street's fraudulent practices 11/10/2011

                            by Scott Wooledge on Sat Nov 12, 2011 at 06:22:05 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Okay. Just making sure we were talking (0+ / 0-)

                            about the same thing. I'd ask you to consider the possibility that you mis-interpreted that. I think you did but will leave it at that.

                            Unapologetically pro-citizen. Not anti-corporation just very pro-citizen.

                            by CanYouBeAngryAndStillDream on Sun Nov 13, 2011 at 08:07:26 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I don't know what I am missing. (0+ / 0-)

                            He isn't saying he's sorry for what he's done.

                            He is only using "sorry" in the context that he "sorry" people "misunderstood" what he did.

                            But understand perfectly well what he did. He used a married heterosexual man raping children as an intro to discuss LGBT adoption rights.

                            He isn't sorry he did that, that we can see. He apparently thinks it was OK. But it isn't.

                            It's the equivalent of using Herman Cain story as an intro to discuss if people should be allowed to date interracially. It could be a bad idea, after all, Cain suggests black men are predators.

                            0: Number of Wall Street bankers arrested over crash of 2008. 3516: Number of Americans arrested protesting Wall Street's fraudulent practices 11/10/2011

                            by Scott Wooledge on Sun Nov 13, 2011 at 09:10:43 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                  •  There is ZERO reason those topics deserve to be (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Clarknt67, dharmafarmer

                    LINKED, period.

                    That is a non-apology apology.   "We apologize for any confusion...."   after intentionally stoking the confusion:  They CREATED this show, featuring both topics.

                    That's a Cheney-style tactic:  repeatedly link Saddam to 9/11, even while Bush states that Iraq was not involved in 9/11.  After a few months of hearing "Saddam" and "9/11", the public is thoroughly convinced that they are connected.
                    The public refuses to break the connection in their mind even when Bush repeatedly says "Saddam was not involved in 9/11", because all the public hears is "Saddam" and "9/11."

                    In this case, and with the "apology" too, the connection is being repeated:  "Pedophilia" and "LGBT adoption."   The interspersed words don't matter.  The connection is repeated and repeated.

                    What a bunch of crap.

                    What a Police State Looks Like: "On one side: soft human flesh, unprotected human skulls, cardboard signs, slogans they chant, armed with belief in 1st Amendment rights. On the other: helmets, body armor, guns, batons, chemical weapons." -- JanetRhodes

                    by YucatanMan on Sat Nov 12, 2011 at 03:32:37 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Cheney connection is exactly it. (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      dharmafarmer, YucatanMan

                      And exactly what went on here. Say "9/11" and "Saddam Hussein" in the same sentence enough times and the facts be damed, the concept becomes linked in people's mind.

                      The concepts here are already linked in people's mind, thanks to hundreds of years of bigotry. Olney just reinforced it.

                      0: Number of Wall Street bankers arrested over crash of 2008. 3516: Number of Americans arrested protesting Wall Street's fraudulent practices 11/10/2011

                      by Scott Wooledge on Sat Nov 12, 2011 at 04:00:14 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  Are you really equating what Warren Olney (0+ / 0-)

                      did with what Dick Cheney did? Olney does one show on this subject and you think that is the same as Cheney going on many different shows repeating a clear lie over and over. Olney did not assert anything. He made an insensitive connection.

                      You are wrong and your anger does not excuse this.

                      Unapologetically pro-citizen. Not anti-corporation just very pro-citizen.

                      by CanYouBeAngryAndStillDream on Sat Nov 12, 2011 at 05:11:43 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  If by what he "did" you mean (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        YucatanMan

                        used a rhetorical tactic to mislead and misinform people, yes I am saying it's the same.

                        If by "did" you mean lie us into a war and offend the LGBT gay community, then no, I am not saying they "did" the same thing.

                        0: Number of Wall Street bankers arrested over crash of 2008. 3516: Number of Americans arrested protesting Wall Street's fraudulent practices 11/10/2011

                        by Scott Wooledge on Sat Nov 12, 2011 at 08:33:19 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                      •  The tactic is the same. There is simply zero (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Clarknt67

                        reason to connect these two topics for any reason.  Zero reason.  

                        Any connection of them furthers the long-standing anti-LGBT meme of child molestation which has destroyed countless lives.  And it derails the discussion of the wrongness of what HETEROsexuals do far, far more often and what the HETEROsexuals did in this particular case.

                        "insensitive" connection?  really?  Well, I can be angry and still dream... of a place where furthering destructive hateful memes is not simply "insensitive" but wrong. Loathsome, even.

                        What a Police State Looks Like: "On one side: soft human flesh, unprotected human skulls, cardboard signs, slogans they chant, armed with belief in 1st Amendment rights. On the other: helmets, body armor, guns, batons, chemical weapons." -- JanetRhodes

                        by YucatanMan on Sat Nov 12, 2011 at 10:33:58 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                  •  Are you his girlfriend, his boyfriend (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Clarknt67

                    or his mother?  Emotionally tied at the hip?  Fan boy?

                    What is the deal with you feeling you have to comment throughout this diary with your "refutation" of the validity of the diary?  

                    OK. We heard what you said. Anything new to say?

                    What a Police State Looks Like: "On one side: soft human flesh, unprotected human skulls, cardboard signs, slogans they chant, armed with belief in 1st Amendment rights. On the other: helmets, body armor, guns, batons, chemical weapons." -- JanetRhodes

                    by YucatanMan on Sat Nov 12, 2011 at 03:34:44 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  I guess I just don't get it (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      CanYouBeAngryAndStillDream

                      when a journalist whose work I've followed for 20 plus years is accused of things by people who've NEVER followed his work and I offer context, I'm the dick -- and not the ones who refuse to take another look.  

                      So no -- no relation, sexual, familial or otherwise.  

                      But man, do you have to be so prickish and unpleasant about it?  I don't dispute the validity of the diary, I never said anyone shouldn't be upset or demand an apology.  I just don't like someone who I respect being mischaracterized, and I don't like seeing people whose interests I happen to share act like a lynch mob without knowing the --

                      -- aw fuck it, you know what I'm going to say.  

                      •  As of now, you have posted 39 (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Clarknt67

                        -- Thirty Nine! -- comments in this diary, basically regurgitating the same thing.

                        Not 1. Not 10. Not even 20 times. 39 times, so far.

                        Do you think you have made your point yet? Do you think the LGBT folk and Allies who want to discuss this topic are tired of hearing we are wrong yet?

                        Thirty-nine times???  Really???

                        KOS:
                        I've spent a great deal of time sifting through diaries the last week or so, and there's a type of dickish behavior that pisses people off, and rightfully so -- the need for some to enter other peoples' diaries simply to be dicks.

                        This isn't a new problem, of course, but it certainly has contributed to the degradation of discourse around here. It's classic dick behavior. So here's a new guideline:

                        The "guest in someone's house" rule

                        Walking into someone's diary is like walking into someone's home. You are a guest. Act accordingly.


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                        20.....
                        and 19 more times.....

                        What a Police State Looks Like: "On one side: soft human flesh, unprotected human skulls, cardboard signs, slogans they chant, armed with belief in 1st Amendment rights. On the other: helmets, body armor, guns, batons, chemical weapons." -- JanetRhodes

                        by YucatanMan on Sat Nov 12, 2011 at 04:25:44 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

              •  Your behavior in this diary comes very (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Clarknt67

                close to what I would call dickishness.

                You've made your point that you think this turd smells like perfume.  Great. Good for you and your refined olfactory senses.  Now, stop repeating it over and over and over - because that IS behaving like a dick. Period.

                Don't be a dick. Dicks deserve HRs. Per the owner of the site.

                What a Police State Looks Like: "On one side: soft human flesh, unprotected human skulls, cardboard signs, slogans they chant, armed with belief in 1st Amendment rights. On the other: helmets, body armor, guns, batons, chemical weapons." -- JanetRhodes

                by YucatanMan on Sat Nov 12, 2011 at 03:27:25 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Yours actually gets there! (0+ / 0-)

                  You disagree with me, so you want me to shut up.  What an asshole.  You don't like what I'm saying?  Stop reading!  Problem solved!  You act like I'm FORCING you to click on my comments.  

                  The only reason I've repeated my stance is that I get the same unthinking crap back when I've tried to advance the conversation. And that's because many people here don't want to examine this any further than agreeing to be angry and upset.  

                  That's how rightwingers do it.  If you want to enforce strict adherence to the prevailing groupthink, you go for it.  But I think that makes you on the dickish side of things far more than it makes me.    

                  •  Make your point. Let the diary have its (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Clarknt67

                    conversation. Posting your point over and over and over is not making your point. It is called "derailing the diary."

                    If you have a great need to propagate an opposing view, write your own diary telling everyone about the great guy you have followed for years or whatever.

                    These points come straight from the keyboard of KOS in his "don't be dickish" diary.

                    What a Police State Looks Like: "On one side: soft human flesh, unprotected human skulls, cardboard signs, slogans they chant, armed with belief in 1st Amendment rights. On the other: helmets, body armor, guns, batons, chemical weapons." -- JanetRhodes

                    by YucatanMan on Sat Nov 12, 2011 at 04:09:55 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                  •  I see the now 40 comments you have posted in this (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Clarknt67

                    diary are your only 40 comments in 2011.

                    You may have missed KOS's discussion, but the expectations of behavior have evolved from your last comment in 2009.

                    Maybe read up on DailyKOS meta-talk for the last two years. Welcome back.

                    What a Police State Looks Like: "On one side: soft human flesh, unprotected human skulls, cardboard signs, slogans they chant, armed with belief in 1st Amendment rights. On the other: helmets, body armor, guns, batons, chemical weapons." -- JanetRhodes

                    by YucatanMan on Sat Nov 12, 2011 at 04:31:08 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

      •  Why does he have idiotic guests on? (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Clarknt67, YucatanMan

        I used to watch Washington Journal quite a bit, but a few years ago, they jumped the shark when they started having idiotic guests on.  What a waste of time and engergy.

        Really anything that is not on Fox is

        complete antithesis of Limbaugh and co.

        That's not really a compliment.

        We delivered. They failed us. We have moved on. (h/t to my good friend)

        by gooderservice on Sat Nov 12, 2011 at 12:47:28 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Because it's a debate, not a cheerleading session (0+ / 0-)

          Because if you're afraid to air and debate opposing views then you're just a cheerleader.  You're just slipping into the warm bath of shit you already know and don't have to grapple with.   Why be so afraid of an idiot's views when they can be easily dismantled on air?  Isn't it better to actually show how dumb this shit is and have people on to counter it?  Thom Hartmann does this all the time.  

          I thought the idea was to have a full, open discussion and let the best idea win.  Are you that worried about your ideas not winning?  

          I'm not.  Bring 'em on.  

          •  it's the worst of "false balance" (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            YucatanMan, gooderservice

            Where malignant idiots' opinions are given equal weigh to "elite" experts who actually study the issue with science.

            You listen to him, does he do the same on climate change? Does he use a blizzard as an example that it's a myth?

            0: Number of Wall Street bankers arrested over crash of 2008. 3516: Number of Americans arrested protesting Wall Street's fraudulent practices 11/10/2011

            by Scott Wooledge on Sat Nov 12, 2011 at 02:05:25 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  You've obviously never heard the show (0+ / 0-)

              Sigh.  There's nothing more I can say if you refuse to educate yourself as to what you're talking about.  Really.  

              I'm sorry to have wasted both our time.  

              •  Sounds like the Jerry Springer show. (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                gooderservice

                Anyone with an opinion gets a slot. Let both sides talk the moderator throws his hands in the air and says, guess we'll never know the truth, but we'll teach the controversy.

                0: Number of Wall Street bankers arrested over crash of 2008. 3516: Number of Americans arrested protesting Wall Street's fraudulent practices 11/10/2011

                by Scott Wooledge on Sat Nov 12, 2011 at 04:03:54 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

          •  Yes, I always thought we should revisit (3+ / 0-)

            slavery by having slavers debate the enslaved!

            I'd feel so much more enlightened by hearing that.

            There is a false meme in "journalism" today that "all sides" should be aired.  Should we hear from Pol Pot's descendents how "Dad was really a loveable guy! You should have heard him sing!"?  

            What bullshit.

            What a Police State Looks Like: "On one side: soft human flesh, unprotected human skulls, cardboard signs, slogans they chant, armed with belief in 1st Amendment rights. On the other: helmets, body armor, guns, batons, chemical weapons." -- JanetRhodes

            by YucatanMan on Sat Nov 12, 2011 at 03:36:56 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  Ewww. (0+ / 0-)

            I'm a cheerleader and I'm in a warm bath of shit.

            Nice touch.

            I'm sorry that you don't agree that not everyone should be entitled to represent an opposing point of view, i.e, a member of the KKK, or a skinhead, or what's that guy's name who wrote a book "proving" that Obama was not born in the U.S., Jerome Corsi.

            I can't prove it, but I think you're trying to project your cheerleading on me.

            The guy screwed up big time.  Apologize and move on.... unless he doesn't think he screwed up, then that's another story.

            We delivered. They failed us. We have moved on. (h/t to my good friend)

            by gooderservice on Sat Nov 12, 2011 at 05:03:02 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

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