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View Diary: Naomi Klein Scares the Hell out of Me (210 comments)

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  •  We just won a huge victory on Keystone (19+ / 0-)

    Don't give up.  Six weeks ago everyone said that the Keystone XL crude bitumen pipeline was a 'done deal'.  Even Hillary Clinton.

    Solar is by far the fastest growing energy source in the US.  Coal use is shrinking. US standing on climate change can be reversed.  It must be reversed.

    "Anyone who believes exponential growth can go on forever in a finite world is either a madman or an economist."

    by oregonj on Sun Nov 13, 2011 at 09:33:59 AM PST

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    •  What victory? (21+ / 0-)

      The Presidents decision to put off the decision until he's safely reelected?

      She's the sort of person who would not only happily stay in Omelas, but would ask "Couldn't life be more wonderful if we threw a few more kids in there?"

      by JesseCW on Sun Nov 13, 2011 at 09:53:34 AM PST

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    •  I understand and sympathize. (7+ / 0-)

      But I believe a few things that make me think that these efforts, laudable as they are, cannot hope to reverse what has been set in motion. The momentum of global change is huge - slow but huge. Decades ago we started down a path of increasing CO2 emissions. That isn't slowing down. China builds hundreds of coal-fired power plants a year. You can't reverse that by recycling your trash or putting solar panels on the roof. Human civilization depends for its existence on two things: predictable growing seasons and vast supplies of cheap energy. Without either one or the other, you just can't have industrial civilization. Climate change is going to damage the predictable growing seasons but I see no change in our thirst for vast supplies of cheap energy derived from fossil fuels. I hate to be the one to say this but, regardless of the social and economic system one might institute, mankind is headed for a great fall in just the same way a bacterial culture grows logarithmically, peaks and then declines as the culture medium becomes poisoned by the bacteria themselves. I see no hope other than massive population collapse at some point after I am dead.

      •  I sadly agree about climate change (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        satanicpanic, Creosote

        The right wing noise machine contributes to the disbelief, but the propaganda works because of a natural human inclination to not want to believe in climate change because the problem itself is overwhelming given the religious, political, economic systems currently in place.  EVERYTHING has to change. Finally, as the diarist notes, if you have children - why would you WANT to believe in climate change.  People will wake up to reality but I fear it will be too late.  It may be too late now. This world has gained 1 billion people in 13 years.   My sig. line says it all.

        "The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it." - Flannery O'Conner

        by Dixiedemocrat on Sun Nov 13, 2011 at 01:26:42 PM PST

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        •  I have a child (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          but anymore, I'm worried about my own future.  This isn't 50 years down the road, this is 10.  

          I am not interested in arguing about Barack Obama

          by satanicpanic on Sun Nov 13, 2011 at 10:05:18 PM PST

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          •  Re: children in this context (0+ / 0-)

            I don't believe those who have children to be selfish.  I adore children, even though I don't have any.  I do believe that ALL of us have to be actively working to make this planet habitable for the children, for ourselves, for life period.  People before profit.

            "The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it." - Flannery O'Conner

            by Dixiedemocrat on Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 03:50:15 AM PST

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    •  meanwhile the largest coal port in North America (20+ / 0-)

      is proposed to be built north of here in Bellingham Wa., near the  border and not far from the big coal terminal on the Canadian side (as a Brakeman for CPR I worked out of there years ago). There will be  2.5 million tons of coal piled up on site to blow in the wind and across the water.  
      All to feed cheap coal to China, and for all the money to be made by Goldman Sachs, Warren Buffett, Peabody Coal, SSA Marine (Sen. Murray's husband involved), BNSF RR, name just a few of the key players.

      Other than helping to stoke the earth's temperature with more carbon, it will be a local disaster...on every level, from health concerns about the toxic coal, destruction of critical wetlands, fisheries, harbor traffic with the massive tankers, the rail traffic blocking intersections and leaving trails of diesel fumes and coal dust.
      That's a very short list of problems, but there are groups working hard to stop this massive coal dump, from Doctors arguing about the respiratory problems, to business people concerned about rail traffic cutting off development of the waterfront, to property owners...and that list goes on.

      To keep this brief, if anyone is in this area tomorrow (Nov.14th) there will be a meeting at the library from 6:30 to 8:30, and this discussion will be about parceling out the tasks, and plans for the scoping issues .

      Here is more info

      without the ants the rainforest dies

      by aliasalias on Sun Nov 13, 2011 at 10:54:14 AM PST

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