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View Diary: Arizona Supreme Court overturns Colleen Mathis' ouster from redistricting commission (287 comments)

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  •  We need to work this angle more (0+ / 0-)

    Tell our progressive friends how much money is being wasted with all this crap, from Arizona to Michigan to Wisconsin to Ohio to Maine...

    •  Can't the conservatives counter (1+ / 0-)
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      that recall elections are costing money?

      Formerly Pan on Swing State Project

      by MichaelNY on Thu Nov 17, 2011 at 09:51:39 PM PST

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      •  Then we can say that the recalls will save us (1+ / 0-)
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        money in the long run by getting rid of the idiots.

        •  That not as obvious an argument. n/t (0+ / 0-)

          Formerly Pan on Swing State Project

          by MichaelNY on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 08:31:55 AM PST

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          •  It's pretty obvious to me. (0+ / 0-)
            •  That's not necessarily relevant (0+ / 0-)

              I don't think you are a typical American voter. You are very politically conscious and look at things from a left-wing viewpoint. Most American voters are a lot less politically conscious and, I daresay, a lot less ideological than you or I are.

              Please forgive me if you already are completely familiar with the Daily Kos Elections sub-site, but what we do here is analyze campaigns and elections, so what's most relevant here is how voters would react to an argument, not how you as an individual would react to the argument.

              Formerly Pan on Swing State Project

              by MichaelNY on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 09:58:54 AM PST

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      •  ps You sound like an advisor to Dick Durbin. (0+ / 0-)

        No disrespect intended, but we need to start being a little firmer in our response to our opposition.

        •  Firmer isn't the issue (0+ / 0-)

          The issue is whether the argument convinces voters. I'm actually happy to be compared to an advisor to Dick Durbin, but you intended it as an insult, and personal attacks are totally irrelevant here.

          Formerly Pan on Swing State Project

          by MichaelNY on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 08:33:34 AM PST

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          •  No, I don't mean it as an insult. I like Durbin, (0+ / 0-)

            but right now he's the poster boy for the "Cowardly Lion" wing of the Dem. party.
            The chicken approach didn't help us in 2010, remember?
            The voters are with the Dems, if they will act on what we all know.

            •  Durbin is not always so cowardly (0+ / 0-)

              He said the banks control the Senate. That's a truth I don't remember any other senator saying - and certainly, no other member of the Leadership.

              As for 2010, I really don't know what you're talking about. What is it you're claiming caused the Democratic defeat in that election, and what's your polling evidence for your claim? It seems clear that the main thing that caused the defeat was that the economy sucked. If you'd like to argue that's because the stimulus was too small and too much of it was in the mildly-stimulative form of tax cuts, you can, but since it was in any case the largest stimulus bill relative to GNP since, I believe, the Great Depression, it can hardly be called the "chicken approach."

              Formerly Pan on Swing State Project

              by MichaelNY on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 10:03:06 AM PST

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          •  ps Criticism isn't the same as an insult. (0+ / 0-)
            •  You are making personal comments (0+ / 0-)

              instead of addressing the problems with your proposed strategy. That won't get you very far on DKE. Have you read our Mission Statement? If not, please read it.

              Formerly Pan on Swing State Project

              by MichaelNY on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 10:06:48 AM PST

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              •  I've spent months reading comments by the mile (0+ / 0-)

                with all sorts of invective aimed at anyone who dared disagree.
                Many of the most prolific commentators and diarists have engaged in this.
                I think you've got a pretty thin skin.
                However, I'll apologize for hurting your feelings, and I'll take your advice to elevate my tone.
                I'm serious.
                How's that?

                •  Invective on Daily Kos Elections? (1+ / 0-)
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                  It really seems to me, you're confusing DKE with the main site of Daily Kos. Which prolific diarists on DKE have engaged in a lot of invective at anyone who disagreed with them? If that's happening, you need to contact David Nir, who has always done his best at Swing State Project and now at DKE to nip all flame wars in the bud.

                  And it's quite unnecessary for you to apologize to me, however backhandedly (this has nothing to do with a "thin skin"). I never felt insulted, just barely slighted. So that's not my point, though I appreciate the gesture. The point is, someone like me isn't making policy here; we're just analyzing the effectiveness of different election strategies, regardless of our personal views. That's what we do here, by comparison with the main site, where people are talking all the time about their personal ideology and often disregarding or dismissing evidence that their prescriptions wouldn't work in elections.

                  Formerly Pan on Swing State Project

                  by MichaelNY on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 04:50:11 PM PST

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              •  I read the DKE mission statement. (2+ / 0-)
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                MichaelNY, SoCalGal23
      •  That's a dangerous argument for them (1+ / 0-)
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        seeing as how Republicans have tried to initiate recalls too (Jim Holperin and Bob Wirch in Wisconsin, mayor of Omaha, etc) and how Terry Branstad's appointment of Swati Dandekar cost the state (or was it Linn County?) money by causing a special election.

        21, male, RI-01 (voting) IL-01 (college), hopeless Swingnut

        by sapelcovits on Fri Nov 18, 2011 at 11:31:06 PM PST

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