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View Diary: Democrats, Stop Caving In (243 comments)

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  •  So the jobs crisis (11+ / 0-)

    didn't really kick in until after the Beatles broke up? Yoko! I knew it.

    Seriously, why does senator Sanders continue to propagate the obviously incorrect notion that the Democrats are "caving"? As though they really really super seriously want to do the right thing...but they just can't.

    It's silly.

    The solution to our debt problem is not to cut spending. That idea is idiotic. We need to dramatically increase spending. We need a massive, multi-trillion dollar investment in US infrastructure and projects to switch to solar. We could do that right now if our government wasn't so bloody corrupt.

    It's actually so simple: nationalize our banks. Nationalize our currency. No, not the gold standard.

    Then we need to gradually print money and buy back our treasury bonds while gradually changing the reserve ratio to 1/1.

    Then we can print the money we need to spend to rebuild our infrastructure.

    No. It won't cause inflation, because the money is going to create real value - things that will make our economy prosper and increase our standard of living.

    •  Because they caved. (14+ / 0-)

      They caved by passing Dubya's and Paulson's Tarp Bill.

      They caved when thay passed an HCR bill that did not address health care costs.

      They caved  when they extended Bush tax cuts last year.

      What is on the table now is a deal from the republicans that would allow about $250 billion in tax increases over the next 10 years if the Bush tax Cuts are made permenant. Cuts to SS and Medicare are also part of the deal.

      The alternative is to let the Bush tax vut expire next year which will result in about a $4 trillion dollar tax revenue increas over the next 10 years..

      Are the dems going to cave again?

      •  I guess we could accurately use "cave" as one... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        revsue, wabird

        might use a basket to hold any of the non-virtues (greed, selfishness, cowardice, apathy, callousness, cruelty, etc.), as in they cave to their unethical characteristics or their fallen angels.

        Cave shouldnt define them as well-intentioned folks rolled over by forces greater than they are, so keep injecting them with a shot of voter supportive steroids to pick themselves up and get back in the ring to fight the good fight and win one for the people... next time. Always next time.

        That has been working out splendidly thus far, no?

        Should a "progressive" Dem blog dwell in the safe zones of a lame party, or should it drive a lame party to break out? If it cant, should it break out?

        by NYCee on Sat Nov 19, 2011 at 07:55:03 AM PST

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        •  Nothing is working out splendidly right now. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          caul, CharlieHipHop

          Gross debt as a share of the GDP has increased by 25% over the last 3 years walls spending as a share of the GDP has increased 6%. Rouhgly $4.5 trill dollars have been added to the debt over that time.

          Pay roll taxes and employee contributions that fund SS have been cut. This is Washington speak for they are robbing the coffers again.  The are setting upp SS for dismantling.

          Well intentioned equates to paying off Wall St and the finacial industry for their past and future support.

          Extension of the expiring tax cuts as mechanism to come with $15 billion in enemployment benefts is like me paying for drive through meal by giving them my car. Letting the cuts expire required them to do nothing and the increased revenue would have paid for the unmeployment extension and provided desperately need revenue.

          The tax cuts were one of the key issue in the 2008 election. The deal to extend them was a back room deal to allow primarily non-fiscal legacy building bills to get passed in the final days of a democratically controlled congress. It was payment to ge the GOP to look the other way.

          The litmus test is if the democrat vote toextend or make the Bush tax cut permanent.

        •  After this many "caves", no, they are NOT well- (9+ / 0-)

          intentioned folks rolled over by forces greater than they are. Not one out of 535.

          It is all kabuki, from the GOP blackhats mouthing the villain's lines, to the DEMsels in Distress pretending to be overpowered, to the King's Fool who gets to speak the uncomfortable truth knowing he doesn't have the power to make any of it happen.

          Shy of the entire district being vaporized by asteroid impact while both houses are in session, there will be no improvement, no matter how many costume Changes there are.

          grieving citizen of the murdered Republic, unrepentant rebel against the Empire.

          by khereva on Sat Nov 19, 2011 at 09:25:27 AM PST

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          •  You speak to the enormity of the task... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            wabird

            when you speak of vaporization as the only method that will effect real change (not ObamaSmallChange) that gives us a decent system for all, one that is within our reach... if NOT for this damned corrupt system - Wall Street and DC - standing in our way, putting such unnecessary but extraordinary distance btw us and our goal.

            Should a "progressive" Dem blog dwell in the safe zones of a lame party, or should it drive a lame party to break out? If it cant, should it break out?

            by NYCee on Sat Nov 19, 2011 at 09:37:44 AM PST

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            •  Not only to the enormity, but also to the futility (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Gustogirl, Brown Thrasher, skyounkin

              when the system itself has been completely purchased by those who now run it for their own benefit.

              One will have to ask, "What are you prepared to do?"

              What any meaningful restoration of the murdered republic will require is nothing short of revolution.

              grieving citizen of the murdered Republic, unrepentant rebel against the Empire.

              by khereva on Sat Nov 19, 2011 at 09:42:08 AM PST

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              •  I understand there are some people in the streets (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                NYCee

                whose fundamental goal is to remove money from politics.

                Are you prepared to join them?

                We kidnap. We torture. It's our policy. Embrace it or end it!

                by Mosquito Pilot on Sat Nov 19, 2011 at 12:42:55 PM PST

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                •  I would like to. I have to say, no. (0+ / 0-)

                  Because if or when I enter the streets, it will be to go to war, and that would not make my wife's life any better, nor any happier.

                  And today, my wife's happiness is my sole consideration.

                  As it is, I'm a post-American, recognizing that the republic is dead, murdered these ten years, and we are both waiting to afford to leave its corpse.

                  grieving citizen of the murdered Republic, unrepentant rebel against the Empire.

                  by khereva on Sat Nov 19, 2011 at 01:35:22 PM PST

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    •  I think Bernie uses the "cave" verbiage because... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Dallasdoc, wabird

      as much as folks like to extol his independent virtues, at the end of the day he has to caucus with the Democrats and he has to keep some connective tissue intact with the party or he would be completely frozen out of the DC game. He does mention, on occasion, that the Democrats are also tainted by the pay to play system.

      Given where we are, he is as close to vocal and rebellious outsiders as one can find, from an insider. I would guess that he expects the masses to state what's going down more bluntly and accurately than he can, when it comes to "cave" versus "contribute," when it comes to Democrats involvement (quite proactive involvement, at that) in the rotten system at large.

      I share your frustration at the usage of "cave" in describing Democrats willing participation in the corrupt and neoliberal practices that are destroying us. I was frustrated with Bernie when he caved on his longstanding opposition to the awful healthcare reform bill in exchange for some health clinics in Vermont. I guess he thought he would at least have something tangible to show for his constituents, at the end of the day, and, at the same time, keep that connective tissue intact between himself and the rest of the D party.

      Remember all those pledges not to support it if there was no public option (already a big compromise), that, when push time came, were all trashed, every one of them, including Kucinich's? And where was the uprising from the base, in protest to that? Most cloned the same "grit your teeth and find the silver lining in corporate wealthcare" behavior, by supporting its passage. That cycle will only repeat itself until there is enough of a mass uprising, with no connective tissue to the insiders, to force change upon the system - a destination that is still terribly distant.

      We cant leave it up to one man in Congress or the two or three more good apples we might possibly be able to squeeze into that rot-infested barrel, to tell it as honestly as possible. Not even Elizabeth Warren did that when she was inside the works, pushing for the consumer protection bureau. It's about amassing greater and greater system-disrupting activism and voice from the people, here and worldwide, if we are ever to make it possible to have the representation necessary to effect the structural changes that will finally break this insane cycle and benefit the disenfranchised masses.  

      Should a "progressive" Dem blog dwell in the safe zones of a lame party, or should it drive a lame party to break out? If it cant, should it break out?

      by NYCee on Sat Nov 19, 2011 at 07:39:02 AM PST

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