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View Diary: Lt. Pike's Golden Shower, Resisting Arrest, and Abuse of Force (232 comments)

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  •  look at the spray bottle, is that a (11+ / 0-)

    Counter Assault Bear Spray bottle with the labels peeled off?

     http://counterassault.com/...

    Is that even legal on humans?

    Why peal off the label in advance if it is? Would that show premeditation or conciousness of guilt?

    Look at the spray on the video. Look familiar?

    •  I believe it is legal to use on humans in (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Seneca Doane

      self defense (like if you have a can of it in your car and someone pulls a knife/crowbar and is coming at you with it).  It might not be legal for police use  as there is a difference between defending yourself with an improvised weapon and routinely using it as a regular weapon.

      There is no saving throw against stupid.

      by Throw The Bums Out on Sun Nov 20, 2011 at 01:30:16 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  No, it's not. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Seneca Doane, KenBee, kaliope

      It's NOT bear spray.  This was addressed in other threads.  It's what's known as a "Riot Extinguisher" in cop-speak.  It's a regular O.C. Pepper Spray but in a very large container for riot and crowd control applications.

      "It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." -- Carl Sagan

      by jtraynor on Sun Nov 20, 2011 at 01:40:44 PM PST

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    •  Here is the OC product they used (10+ / 0-)

      http://www.defense-technology.com/...

      Defense Technologies is the largest police OC pepper spray manufacturer in the US.  Click that link and look at the top row, 2nd from the right to see the exact pepper spray that was used on the crowd.  There is even a bigger one the size of an actual fire extinguisher next to it.

      Also, this company makes a lot of CN (tear gas) and less-lethal projectiles that riot police have been using.

      "It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." -- Carl Sagan

      by jtraynor on Sun Nov 20, 2011 at 01:46:24 PM PST

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      •  Tear gas CS is mixed in with OC in this spray. (5+ / 0-)

        No wonder kids were having serious respiratory issues.

        This particular line of CS/OC compound tear gas/pepper spray is intended for use by officers "in extreme situations."  Their line of OC sprays come in .2%, .4%, .7%, .9% and 1.3% strengths.  I would hope officers are using the lowest strength appropriate for non-combative but perhaps boisterous young protestors.  Another vendor, UDAP, is sellling 3% OC Mugger Fogger billed as the world's hottest pepper spray.  And their Grizzly Bear Spray is also 3% OC.  And so this 3% OC spray that's calibrated to stop a charging 800lb grizzly from 25-30' away -- well something half that strength should be perfectly fine for humans at point blank, right?  I suppose the police would also argue that a 3% OC spray doesn't really hurt the bear one bit...it's just momentary.

        Found something helpfulon defence-technology.com after browsing a bit.  They offer a quick handy treatment for OC spray called Cool It.  And UDAP also offers Pepper Spray Reliever for only $12.95.  Might want to pick up a case or two.  I think we should consider donating some to the budget-constrained police departments.

        I personally haven't yet seen reports or on the ground video of cops using Cool It or Pepper Spray Reliever to give some relief to those hit with the OC/CS spray.  I'm sure that's just a media omission.  Worse, a quick remedy like that just isn't being carried by officers entrusted with using OC/CS spray on noisy humans of all ages.  Must be budget cuts or too heavy to carry, or something like that.  Maybe taking the time for using it would require too much 'overtime' expense--there's so many protesters faces and throats to spray and so little time.  Hate to think they just callously don't care to end the suffering and punishment they've caused our fellow citizens for minutes, hours, days, perhaps for life...

        When life gives you wingnuts, make wingnut butter!

        by antirove on Sun Nov 20, 2011 at 08:11:54 PM PST

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        •  Yikes! When pepper itself isn't enough? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          aitchdee

          Thanks for the calculations.  We need more bears in sit-ins!

          Democrats must
          Earn the trust
          Of the 99% --
          That's our intent!

          "I love this goddamn country, and we're going to take it back." -- Saul Alinksy OCcupy!

          by Seneca Doane on Sun Nov 20, 2011 at 10:30:45 PM PST

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          •  And we'd be exercizing our right to bear arms (0+ / 0-)

            and bear legs and fuzzy heads, cold noses and furry bodies.  

            Who would dare pepper spray protestors with armloads of Teddy Bears?  They could be the ones kept in tents, holding up signs, going limp during arrest.  It could be a win...call the overnights at an Occupy Camp a 'sleepover' with story times--featuring stories of brave workers and unions winning the concessions on compensation, benefits, job security, and the working conditions they deserved.  Bring poor and homeless orphans and kids and books, invite the cops to read to the kids.  This could be a rolling show, take it on a bus, visit neighborhoods, schools (pre-arranging would be helpful)

            When life gives you wingnuts, make wingnut butter!

            by antirove on Sun Nov 20, 2011 at 10:54:57 PM PST

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        •  Did they tell the Doctors when 2 were hospitalized (0+ / 0-)

          that the students had been sprayed not just with pepper spray but with a mixture of pepper spray and tear gas. Asthma attacks are sometimes fatal.

          Was this Frankenstein Combo spray authorized?

          •  Whether authorized or not, I'm most angry that (0+ / 0-)

            the remedy sprays/foams are not hanging from police belts, at the ready, not ever being considered for use after protesters are 'subdued' and cuffed, and left in agony for many hours.  These heavily armed police are generally far larger and stronger than the protesters targeted for spraying.  I can't imagine it'd be that great an effort for 1 to 3 of them to cooperatively separate the protesters one by one for arrest, using commands and pressure holds--just enough to obtain compliance, but apparently that wasn't attempted...too labor intensive?  It looks to me like a 'shock and awe' approach is what police think they need to use against large groups of boisterous protesters, more than 99% of whom are peaceful, non-violent and usually chant nothing worse than "You're cute, you're...take off your riot gear!" to police, until perhaps being harshly beaten and sprayed.  It's not working out for them...and they need to grasp why.

            We could direct our media to pay attention the city police chiefs who understand that harsh police brutality is generating iconic martyrs and increasing public sympathy for protesters as well as increasing the resolve of more people to participate next time to stand with those unfairly and disproportionately punished.  One example was in Milwaukee last Friday. The chief's approach to Occupy Milwaukee taking the North St. bridge was to just keep his forces at the far ends of the bridge directing traffic around it, allowing the protesters to say and do whatever they wanted, and waiting them out.  Curious press asked why he didn't send in police to 'clear out the protesters' for blocking the bridge and forcefully remove them. He told them it would take much longer to clear if he started making arrests and risk too much harm to officers and protesters.  He predicted the protesters wouldn't last long isolated on the bridge exposed to the incoming wintry weather--Wisconsin weather requires a fair amount of preparation for long periods outdoors on top of a windy bridge.  After an hour, due to the increasingly near freezing temperatures, wind and incoming wet weather, the crowd declared victory, and disbanded for that day, with a few dozen hanging around another 30-45 minutes.  No arrests, no blasts of pepper spray, rounds of tear gas or rubber bullets, no bloodied batons and bodies, no protesters put in life-threatening health situation (ok, maybe a small hypothermia risk), no clogging of the county jails and court system with hundreds of minor arrests, no issues transporting hundreds safely, no huge bill for police overtime, and no multi-million dollar lawsuits.  This chief also serves as an officer in PERF so perhaps he'll be citing his experience for the next rounds of unorganized, spontaneous 'conference calls' with other chiefs and mayors.

            When life gives you wingnuts, make wingnut butter!

            by antirove on Mon Nov 21, 2011 at 09:12:30 AM PST

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      •  CN was quickly replaced by CS as the preferred (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Seneca Doane

        crowd control agent in the 1960s

        I am off my metas! Präsidentenelf-maßschach; Warning-Some Snark Above"Nous sommes un groupuscule" (-9.50; -7.03)

        by annieli on Sun Nov 20, 2011 at 08:14:06 PM PST

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