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View Diary: "Take your hands off me" (121 comments)

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  •  inevitably there will be cops (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Seamus D, emal, Dirtandiron

    who will feel internally repulsed by what they are being ordered to do and what they see other cops doing. Ex-cops too will be disgusted, or at least a certain percentage of them.  I think we should reach out to these people RIGHT NOW.

    "Some of you are going to die... martyrs, of course, to the Freedom that I will provide!"

    by emperor nobody on Mon Nov 21, 2011 at 02:44:46 PM PST

    •  well they NEED to stand up then (12+ / 0-)

      in Egypt Mubarak ORDERED the military to start shelling the citizens in the square form the tanks, the officers gave the order, it was the tank squads THEMSELVES that said.. ENOUGH..  NO I will no follow that order.

      You tell me it to much to ask for another cop to walk aver to a cop who just started pepper spraying and grabbing the spray from him and telling him ENOUGH...

      Bad is never good until worse happens

      by dark daze on Mon Nov 21, 2011 at 02:53:36 PM PST

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      •  I absolutely agree (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Dirtandiron, strangedemocracy

        and that's why I wrote that whole thing (linked above) to say that OWS should be publicly reaching out to the ones that are disgusted by these actions, cops both past and present.  The "OWS-vs.cops" narrative, although part of the story, is turning off people we need to convert or have on our side because they've seen it all before, from Burma to Birmingham.

        We have to rise to the occasion of developing proactive and unprecedentedly creative strategies for non-violence or the power structure is going to get the excuse it craves to crush us all like bugs. We need to educate people on the Stockholm Syndrome they hold us all under and find new & spectacular ways to do it, IMO.

        "Some of you are going to die... martyrs, of course, to the Freedom that I will provide!"

        by emperor nobody on Mon Nov 21, 2011 at 03:01:26 PM PST

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        •  the key i think (4+ / 0-)

          is what we are seeing in UC.  Hold those who give the order responsible.  If the police chiefs, mayors, chancellors believe they may lose their cushy job over giving an order, they are likely not to give it.

          Bad is never good until worse happens

          by dark daze on Mon Nov 21, 2011 at 03:07:16 PM PST

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          •  I agree that a key, one of many (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            CuriousBoston, Dirtandiron

            We have to make this go up the food chain, past the police... old memes about how the cops are all "pigs" are meaningless and people just hear "Charlie Brown's teacher" when they hear that stuff.  Plus, the cops, even at the highest level, aren't making billions so they are in the 99% of the statistical equation whether they know it or not. The real pigs are the 1%, the ones who as a tiny sliver of the population still somehow hoard all (or half, anyway) of its wealth and resources... we have to find super creative ways that play in mass media to establish who the real hogs are and do it so people who should be with us can't help but be with us and see themselves as such.

            This is a tremendous challenge to us as a movement, but I believe we can do it as long as we stay clear in the knowledge that the quantity of challenges we face doesn't define us, but the quality of our responses and reactions to those challenges does and will.

            "Some of you are going to die... martyrs, of course, to the Freedom that I will provide!"

            by emperor nobody on Mon Nov 21, 2011 at 03:59:07 PM PST

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            •  the cops arent making all the money (3+ / 0-)

              but they are part of the highly militarized semi police state we now exist in.

              I think its a good thing that people are starting to look at the cops for what they are, and not some childish fetish for some father figure simply because a few building fell down.

              This country needs to grow the fuck up before its too late.

              Bad is never good until worse happens

              by dark daze on Mon Nov 21, 2011 at 04:50:05 PM PST

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    •  What makes you think that? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Ray Pensador

      The cops are having a party. This is fun for them.

      •  many of them yes (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        bakeneko

        some -- however small a %age -- no.  You target those people publicly, especially ex-cops without a position to risk.. the Ray Kellys of the world, of which there must be several if not many.  You reach out to them in a very public way that accentuates the desire of this movement to de-escalate with police who get their 99%ness and don't like what's being done and what they are being ordered to do.  You utilize these police in a very public r'approchement that makes it harder for the mass media to cast this whole thing as "cops vs. protestors," which the whole world has seen before and by which it is easily turned off.  You work on changing that narrative any possible way you can, with creativity being of the essence and you work on innovating new strategies in non-violence that go beyond the old strictures.

        The statistical reality is that the police are just as in the 99% that doesn't control half the wealth as we are, and any way you set about illustrating this and writing it large and proactively across the coverage of this (right now stacked against OWS via old, rotten memes like "anarchists" and yes, "hippies") people's consciousness, the greater our success will be.

        "Some of you are going to die... martyrs, of course, to the Freedom that I will provide!"

        by emperor nobody on Mon Nov 21, 2011 at 09:34:27 PM PST

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        •  *in people's consciousness (0+ / 0-)

          "Some of you are going to die... martyrs, of course, to the Freedom that I will provide!"

          by emperor nobody on Mon Nov 21, 2011 at 09:35:38 PM PST

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        •  There could be several Ray Kellys (0+ / 0-)

          And they can/will come forward. I got other things to do besides talking to cops. Anyway, I spend too much time within baton's distance of a cop I'm gonna get hit.

          •  it's not just about you (0+ / 0-)

            it's about winning the PR war and you do that with unprecedented and public gestures of total non-violence, like the silence the UC Davis kids visited upon the Chancellor as she shame-walked to her car that's now a seminal piece of viral footage.  An all-out, proactive campaign to invite the Ray Kellys to come forward and join us could be a vital step in de-escalation with a lot of cops and a major public relations win for OWS if it's done loudly and sincerely.  Suddenly you change the tone of the coverage from a constant barrage of stuff about how it's OWS vs. the cops into something more complicated and make it harder for the facile and lazy mass media to paint this movement with the same old colors.

            Of course there will be more pepper-sprayings and beatings by the asshole cop majority, I get that.  With each one, the undecided public comes more over to our side. What we need to do is accelerate that process and make it not just about those cops but about other ones and especially ex-cops who are more sympathetic as well, and make a big bid in our messaging to accentuate that outreach and inoculate the public against filing us away with all the (sorry, but failed) protest movements of the past.

            "Some of you are going to die... martyrs, of course, to the Freedom that I will provide!"

            by emperor nobody on Mon Nov 21, 2011 at 10:40:08 PM PST

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