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View Diary: Pregnant Woman Blasted with Pepper Spray by SPD Says She Miscarried (319 comments)

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  •  Not Murder (5+ / 0-)

    I agree that we should not call the death of a fetus murder. However it still should not be legal to knowingly use force against a pregnant women that could be reasonably expected to cause harm or death to the fetus. There are many incidents of men beating their pregnant girlfriends/wives with the intent of causing a miscarriage and to my mind this should be an additional crime separate from the battery.

    Just because a women has the right to terminate a pregnancy does not mean that the fetus can harmed by anybody with impunity. This would be akin to claiming that just because everybody has the right to shred and throw into the garbage a valuable painting if they own it means that anybody has the right to destroy that persons painting.

    •  Or, someone viciously attacking my senior (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      zett, ilyana, WattleBreakfast

      Dog with heart problems, arthritis, and ongoing pain because I have earned the right to euthanize her.

      And yes, I probably would use the word "murder" to describe that attack even though I have euthanized elderly sick  dogs in the  past.

      It's the locus of the language  being used that is important here. I can describe my actions toward my own  body (or my actions that my vet agrees are in my dogs best interests) using certain language. But when someone else uses violence, that moves the locus outward, and the language changes.

      © grover

      So if you get hit by a bus tonight, would you be satisfied with how you spent today, your last day on earth? Live like tomorrow is never guaranteed, because it's not.

      by grover on Tue Nov 22, 2011 at 01:45:54 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  It's a murder if the mother wants the child. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ER Doc, Catrina

      Period, end of sentence, as far as I'm concerned.

      I've miscarried and the pain and suffering of the mother is very, very real.

      My heart goes out to Ms. Fox.

      •  I have unfortuantely (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ER Doc, dfe

        had the same thing happen, X 5.  

        Please be careful here in your distress, which I share.  If you go down this path, then YOU and I are responsible for the deaths of these fetuses.  Just as that state legislator in NC (don't chose to use up brain cells remembering his name) who recently died (of his own hate caused heart issues), said we would be, if we miscarried.

        You also need to give space to the mother who wants a child, but for various good reasons, determines it is not in the best interests of the fetus to continue to develop. Or if her life will be endangered by continuing the pregnancy.   Or one has become pregnant through force.  

        And unfortunately, what should be very personal, private decisions and events have become politicized by polarizing statements.   Things are usually not black and white.

        May your find comfort and peace and give the same to others.  

      •  . (0+ / 0-)

        This getting even murkier now, as mentioned, kinda, either it is concrete that a first trimester is considered a life or it is concrete that it is not, it cannot be up to the person to decide whether or not it is murder.  

        Any deviation in the above could give credence to the pro-life brigade imho.

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