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View Diary: Arrest McCain and Levin Now. Senate to Vote on Military Detention of Americans. (177 comments)

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  •  Wouldn't it be nice (13+ / 0-)

    if we lived in a world where we could change things by calling our "representatives"?  Unfortunately, we don't live in that world.  

    Something that liberals need to learn and learn quickly: this is NOT a democracy.  This is a class dictatorship we live under.  Elections exist, not to give power to the people, but to legitimize this class dictatorship.  

    Do you really think that the bourgeoisie puts its agenda up for a vote?  That somehow, despite all evidence to the contrary, these people actually give a motherfuck about what the people think?  How much did they care about what the people thought when it came time to vote for the bankster bailout?  How much did they care when the people demanded a public option?  How much do they care when the people demand that we leave Afghanistan?  

    The diarist speaks of "enemies of the Constitution," but nowhere does the diarist acknowledge that this constitution was itself a product of the very class enemies that enslaved black Africans and committed genocide against the indigenous people of this land.  I'm all for fighting for civil liberties, but let's get real: these liberties have ALWAYS, throughout the history of this country, been subject to the whims of the ruling class.  In times where things are going smoothly for them they have no problem upholding basic human and political rights.  But when they feel threatened they always have and always will declare a state of exception.  Instead of speaking of "enemies of the Constitution," we should instead speak of enemies of the people, for that is what the ruling class is and always has been.

    Liberals, please recognize that the state under capitalist imperialism is not some neutral arbiter of disputes among the people.  It is a ruthless mechanism for class oppression.  These people have done and will continue to do whatever they feel is necessary to maintain their political power.  And acknowledging that fact, recognizing the inherent truth of the entire bourgeois power apparatus, the utter hypocrisy of their flowery rhetoric about "freedom" and "rights" and "rule of law," is the first step in coming to an understanding of what this system actually is and what it's going to take to dismantle and replace it with something human.  

    Again, this is not a fucking democracy!  This is a dictatorship masked by a formal appearance of democracy.

    We should rid our ranks of all impotent thinking. All views that overestimate the strength of the enemy and underestimate the strength of the people are wrong. -- Mao Zedong

    by GiveNoQuarter on Mon Nov 28, 2011 at 07:13:18 PM PST

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    •  Wouldn't it be nice (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      gerrilea, glitterscale, shaharazade

      if GNQ was just a rambling excentric.
      I fear that is not the case.

      •  There's nothing "eccentric" (4+ / 0-)

        here.  It's a correct understanding of what "democracy" actually consists of under capitalist imperialism.  There have been times in the past in this country when a broad section of the people possessed this knowledge.  If you don't believe me, go back and study the real history of the 60s movement in this country and not the corporatized image of "flower children" and "peace, love, dope."  See also the real history of 20s and early 30s, when the CPUSA was actually a revolutionary organization.  Or the period from the 1880's up until the First World War, when the Wobblies and other revolutionary organizations had real strength.  

        The rulers want you to forget about this history.  That want you to believe that the only revolutionaries this country has ever had were the "Founding Fathers," who, it is claimed, were guided by the Divine Hand of Jeebus and the Invisible Hand of Adam Smith.  It's a fucking lie.

        It's time for the left to once again learn its history and to face up to its historic mission.  Human equality is the truth and it is our task to bring it into being.  

        We should rid our ranks of all impotent thinking. All views that overestimate the strength of the enemy and underestimate the strength of the people are wrong. -- Mao Zedong

        by GiveNoQuarter on Mon Nov 28, 2011 at 08:47:31 PM PST

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        •  I think the other poster WAS agreeing with you ... (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Joealan, glitterscale, shaharazade
          •  Yes (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Roadbed Guy, shaharazade

            Wishing it wern't so.

            •  But is was clever how you worded (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              shaharazade

              your reply to subtly imply to the non-careful reader that the person might - maybe just maybe - actually be an eccentric nutcase.

              It's always good to be on one's toes to detect that type of thing (I'm particularly suspicious about myself in that regard, for example).

              •  I know the poster (0+ / 0-)

                agreed with me.  And I don't mean this to sound snippy but I don't need a reading lesson.  It is very obvious what he/she said.  

                My response was merely an elaboration on my point that we live under a bourgeois dictatorship and an attempt to encourage other progressive-minded people to learn (or relearn) about the history of the left in this country.  

                We should rid our ranks of all impotent thinking. All views that overestimate the strength of the enemy and underestimate the strength of the people are wrong. -- Mao Zedong

                by GiveNoQuarter on Tue Nov 29, 2011 at 11:18:21 AM PST

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        •  I agree with your idea that our history has been (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Joealan, shaharazade

          whitewashed, twisted and re-written...but I don't agree that the founders all believed in "Jeebus"...

          Today the FBI teaches that the founders were the first terrorists...

          See this video and maybe you'll understand...NOW we are the terrorists and history means nothing.

          -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

          by gerrilea on Tue Nov 29, 2011 at 03:24:51 AM PST

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    •  did you expect our founding fathers to be perfect (6+ / 0-)

      to be without sin? despite their flaws, this document speaks to their ideals. it's more enlightened than anything our current crop of hucksters and swindlers could come up with, don't you agree?

      how can you not take to heart prose like this?

      We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

      this is a radical proposition. not something said by a pampered class invested in preserving the status quo.

      •  Well of course (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        stolen water

        it was far-sighted for its time.  The American Revolution marked one of the two most important political events in the ascendancy of the bourgeoisie towards ruling class status (the other, much more important, was the French Revolution.)  

        Jefferson is still interesting to read.  He was a Jacobin at heart.  A true fighter for bourgeois freedom.  But lets be scientific and not sentimental and recognize that it is bourgeois freedom that Jefferson fought for, not freedom for all human beings.  

        We fight for the freedom of every single human being.  That's our historic role.  And it has been for a long time, though for some reason the left in this country periodically forgets this.

        We should rid our ranks of all impotent thinking. All views that overestimate the strength of the enemy and underestimate the strength of the people are wrong. -- Mao Zedong

        by GiveNoQuarter on Tue Nov 29, 2011 at 11:51:57 AM PST

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    •  some of us have been pointing out (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Joealan, gerrilea, glitterscale

      that choice is an illusion.

      •  If they completely abrogate the 2nd A, then it (0+ / 0-)

        truly is an illusion...

        Without force and the willingness to use it, freedom is just wishful thinking...

        -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

        by gerrilea on Tue Nov 29, 2011 at 03:28:53 AM PST

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        •  a fellow kossack earlier reminded us earlier (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          gerrilea

          nonviolent resistance is a force as well. there is power in the masses standing together in opposition.

          •  Agreed completely...we've already witnessed (0+ / 0-)

            what happened with that...OWS has accomplished nothing...the fraudulent credit agencies are still in business, the bankers are still getting bonuses and the "American Dream" is dead....

            Non-violence has to be practiced first but when that fails what is left???

            -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

            by gerrilea on Tue Nov 29, 2011 at 02:33:20 PM PST

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            •  i disagree that ows has accomplished nothing. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              gerrilea

              occupiers in various cities have prevented homes from being foreclosed upon and pressured the banks to renegotiate mortgages. banks have been pressured to drop plans to tack on additional fees. the keystone pipeline project was averted.

              is it enough? certainly not, but this is more than cynics expected could be done. i feel impatient too, but transformations don't happen overnight.

              in the final days, east germany crumbled without firing a shot.

      •  'consent of the governed' (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        stolen water, RockyMtnLib

        is the kicker and withdrawing consent is the only remedy people have.  I don't consent to this government taking away rights both civil and human that have taken centuries to establish.

        How futile to be so fearful of the bad cops, the wingers, that we consent to unjust powers that have the same end goal, destroying the rule of law and our system and undoing centuries of human progress.  Wheres' my habeaus corpus?

        Tell me again why I should give my consent, by vote, to these traitors regardless of which party they profess to be?  It's like health insurance nothing but extortion and the worst part is after they get your consent they refuse to protect your inalienable rights. they just interpret and twist the rule of law until corporations are people and citizens are enemies of the state.

         

    •  trying to figure out why you (0+ / 0-)

      posted this as a reply to my comment.  Are you suggesting that since we don't "live in a Democracy" I shouldn't have bothered to call?

      Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it. --Mark Twain

      by SottoVoce on Tue Nov 29, 2011 at 04:58:18 AM PST

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      •  I'm saying it's time to stop pretending. (0+ / 0-)

        We should rid our ranks of all impotent thinking. All views that overestimate the strength of the enemy and underestimate the strength of the people are wrong. -- Mao Zedong

        by GiveNoQuarter on Tue Nov 29, 2011 at 11:57:45 AM PST

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        •  OK, by your reasoning: we're not living (0+ / 0-)

          in a Democracy.  So we should "stop pretending" that we are and then what?  Pull up stumps and disengage?  Quit voting altogether, since the deck is stacked?  Write in a losing candidate?  Burn down the Capitol and the White House?

          I'm of a different mind.  One only needs look at the activities of the heroes in Wisconsin, whose non-violent activism, combined with ballot box muscle, is not only starting to make a difference
          for residents of the state, but also setting an example for the rest of the country, starting with election results in Ohio and Mississippi just this year.  They provided the impetus for OWS.  And calling our Senators may seem like a fool's errand to you, but I don't intend to quit making my voice heard in any way I can.  

          I suggest you read the brilliant "Winner Take All Politics" by Jacob Hacker.  You will discover how keeping track of how many yeas and nays call in actually makes a difference.  The right has the upper hand on that right now.  We on the left don't need to help them by pooh poohing the process of calling.

          Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it. --Mark Twain

          by SottoVoce on Tue Nov 29, 2011 at 02:24:50 PM PST

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