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View Diary: Arrest McCain and Levin Now. Senate to Vote on Military Detention of Americans. (177 comments)

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  •  Just 9 days ago Geekesque said detaining citizens (9+ / 0-)

    without due process was "grossest violation of civil liberties in US History."

    Oh, but "Gestapo!" that's hyperbole! That's just going too far. Everybody clutch the pearls.

    I guess I should have just said, "why would we want to repeat the grossest violation of civil rights in US history?"

    Then maybe I could meet with the vaunted Geekesque approval. No. Probably not. It really doesn't matter what I say to you.

    0: Number of Wall Street bankers arrested over crash of 2008. 4619: Number of Americans arrested protesting Wall Street's fraudulent practices 11/21/2011

    by Scott Wooledge on Mon Nov 28, 2011 at 10:18:05 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  FDR's racist concentration camps were far worse (1+ / 1-)
      Recommended by:
      DarienComp
      Hidden by:
      Throw The Bums Out

      than anything the current President has done, is trying to do, or is seeking the legal authority to do.  

      But,  they were just pragmatic politics whereas the fact that McCain introduced a deeply awful, unconstitutional bill that has zero chance at becoming law only confirms that America is living under the rule of a Fuhrer instead a President.

      But, I guess people who were down with comparing the current President to George Wallace, Orval Faubus & co and who pimped the left wing version of Glenn Beck's FEMA camp fantasies (the children's tale of a DHS-coordinated crackdown on OWS) could refrain from comparing the current admin to Nazi Germany only so long.

      This site's membership has collectively lost the right to disdain the paranoia, hyperbole, and extremism of the Tea Partiers who put up Obama=Stalin billboards thanks to folks such as yourself.

      "[R]ather high-minded, if not a bit self-referential"--The Washington Post.

      by Geekesque on Tue Nov 29, 2011 at 04:15:34 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  You really are a dick. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Throw The Bums Out

        Did you just say I'm as paranoid and extreme as the Tea Party? Yes,,you did.

        This site's membership has collectively lost the right to disdain the paranoia, hyperbole, and extremism of the Tea Partiers who put up Obama=Stalin billboards thanks to folks such as yourself.
        I used to think you were OK, but you're a pitiably despicable person.

        0: Number of Wall Street bankers arrested over crash of 2008. 4619: Number of Americans arrested protesting Wall Street's fraudulent practices 11/21/2011

        by Scott Wooledge on Tue Nov 29, 2011 at 06:46:44 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  You falsely and maliciously (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          DarienComp

          accused me of supporting a bill that would institute the equivalent of racist concentration camps, and then turn around and whine when you get called on your shrillperbole.

          P.S.  The McCain-Levin bill, while odious, in no way rises to the level of throwing an entire race of people into camps simply because of who their ancestors were.

          P.P.S.  Perhaps if you didn't compare the current US government to Nazi Germany and stopped peddling the leftwing equivalent of FEMA camps, the resemblance to Teabaggers would be less striking.

          "[R]ather high-minded, if not a bit self-referential"--The Washington Post.

          by Geekesque on Tue Nov 29, 2011 at 07:08:03 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  PPS (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            joe shikspack, Medium Head Boy, mimi

            A defining characteristic of totalitarian regimes is whether the detained are afforded due process of law. So when we seek to legitimize into US law a policy of denying it, it isn't such a huge stretch as you would like to think.

            The specifics that this one will likely be used on Arabs enemies rather Japanese really aren't such a great distinction.

            I am glad you are able to be so bloody nonchalant about it. Gosh how mature you are.

            0: Number of Wall Street bankers arrested over crash of 2008. 4619: Number of Americans arrested protesting Wall Street's fraudulent practices 11/21/2011

            by Scott Wooledge on Tue Nov 29, 2011 at 07:16:37 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Good thing nobody here supports (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              DarienComp

              the McCain-Levin bill.  It's a bundle of evil, just not as great an evil as the internment camps.

              The distinction, of course, is that the Japanese internment actually did happen and that the government didn't even pretend that the individuals had engaged in any kind of wrongdoing.  It was based purely in racism.

              "[R]ather high-minded, if not a bit self-referential"--The Washington Post.

              by Geekesque on Tue Nov 29, 2011 at 07:33:21 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  No, the reason given wasn't "racism." (4+ / 0-)

                The Japanese were detained in the name of "national security." The exact same reason this bill is being proposed.

                Your interpretation is all lazy hindsight.

                0: Number of Wall Street bankers arrested over crash of 2008. 4619: Number of Americans arrested protesting Wall Street's fraudulent practices 11/21/2011

                by Scott Wooledge on Tue Nov 29, 2011 at 07:55:28 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Official US policy was every person of Japenese (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  DarienComp

                  ancestry was a potential threat to the state.  That's not national security, that's racism.

                   McCain's bill sucks, but it could not support rounding up every Arab and Muslim.

                  "[R]ather high-minded, if not a bit self-referential"--The Washington Post.

                  by Geekesque on Tue Nov 29, 2011 at 08:01:07 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  So, it's really not so bad (0+ / 0-)

                    If it only rounds up a handful of Arabs and denies then due process?

                    I guess the point Martin Luther King was making went over your head: "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."

                    0: Number of Wall Street bankers arrested over crash of 2008. 4619: Number of Americans arrested protesting Wall Street's fraudulent practices 11/21/2011

                    by Scott Wooledge on Tue Nov 29, 2011 at 08:08:20 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Thank you for proving my point regarding (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      DarienComp

                      how you lower the level of discussion here.
                      You interpreted the following language:

                      McCain's bill is a horrendous piece of crap.
                      McCain introduced a deeply awful, unconstitutional bill
                      P.S.  The McCain-Levin bill, while odious, in no way rises to the level of throwing an entire race of people into camps simply because of who their ancestors were.
                      Good thing nobody here supports (0+ / 0-)
                      the McCain-Levin bill.  It's a bundle of evil, just not as great an evil as the internment camps.

                      as "it's really not so bad."

                      Because, you can't or refuse to process even the most obvious of nuances--that this bill is awful, but it wouldn't be the worst thing this country has ever done on civil liberties.

                      Either one has to break out the Godwinism and compare its proponents to Adolf Hitler, or one is deemed to be undisturbed by it.

                      "[R]ather high-minded, if not a bit self-referential"--The Washington Post.

                      by Geekesque on Tue Nov 29, 2011 at 08:25:37 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

      •  which is really just my way of saying (0+ / 0-)

        I have strived to remain cordial in our interactions, despite our obvious differences in perspective. But it's clear it was a wasted effort as your comment reveals nothing but contempt for "people like me." Note taken. I'll be grateful to ignore you in the future as "people like me" and "people like you" can expect nothing useful to come from any exchange.  

        0: Number of Wall Street bankers arrested over crash of 2008. 4619: Number of Americans arrested protesting Wall Street's fraudulent practices 11/21/2011

        by Scott Wooledge on Tue Nov 29, 2011 at 07:06:47 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Your comment history says you didn't strive at all (0+ / 0-)
          Now you're stepping up to defend McCain, Levin and Congress passing a law designed to do exactly the same thing in 2011? You really are a very sad and confused person.
          Statements like that are precisely why I consider good faith engagement with you on the topic of Obama a waste of time.
          You can spare the pretense (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:priceman, Sanctimonious
          that you value civil liberties, or anything, over Obama's image. If the road to police brutality orders intended to intimidate people from protesting the status quo led to the administration, you'd tear up the Bill of Rights every bit as fast as any of the Red State Bush fans you hate

          Typical--eager to dish it out, but even more eager to play the victim if some of it comes back.

          "[R]ather high-minded, if not a bit self-referential"--The Washington Post.

          by Geekesque on Tue Nov 29, 2011 at 07:14:06 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Well, my diary history says I am not (0+ / 0-)

            an outlier voice, with 277 recommended diaries, so it appears a lot of people recommend my brand of rhetoric. Have you contemplated maybe it is you who is out of step with the Kos community? Maybe "people like you" are stinking the place up.

            0: Number of Wall Street bankers arrested over crash of 2008. 4619: Number of Americans arrested protesting Wall Street's fraudulent practices 11/21/2011

            by Scott Wooledge on Tue Nov 29, 2011 at 07:23:59 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Well, there's a principled argument (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              DarienComp

              with not a hint of egotism or hubris.

              "[R]ather high-minded, if not a bit self-referential"--The Washington Post.

              by Geekesque on Tue Nov 29, 2011 at 07:29:31 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Nope just the facts. (0+ / 0-)

                "Peope like me" are empirically, demonstrably more popular than "people like you."

                But feel free to continue to rile about how "people like me" are dragging this site down to teabagger level.

                I should save myself the indignity of punching down in these exchanges with "people like you." But we all have things to work on.

                0: Number of Wall Street bankers arrested over crash of 2008. 4619: Number of Americans arrested protesting Wall Street's fraudulent practices 11/21/2011

                by Scott Wooledge on Tue Nov 29, 2011 at 07:49:18 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Breaking out the high school quarterback argument. (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  JTinDC, DarienComp

                  "see, you math nerd, us jocks are more popular, so you should know your place."

                  What does popularity  have to do with quality of discourse?  The Rec List is known as the Wreck List for a reason.

                  Also, you're confusing people recommending diaries on various subjects with endorsements of how awesome you are on every issue.

                  I myself recommended a lot of your DADT and DOMA diaries.  That obviously doesn't mean I support your pimping of the DHS conspiracy horseshit.

                  "[R]ather high-minded, if not a bit self-referential"--The Washington Post.

                  by Geekesque on Tue Nov 29, 2011 at 08:05:31 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Sounds like you're still carrying some baggage (0+ / 0-)

                    from years past. Maybe talk to someone about that?

                    0: Number of Wall Street bankers arrested over crash of 2008. 4619: Number of Americans arrested protesting Wall Street's fraudulent practices 11/21/2011

                    by Scott Wooledge on Tue Nov 29, 2011 at 08:18:58 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Baggage? (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      DarienComp

                      I've never counted how many Rec List diaries I've gotten.  I certainly never took making the rec list as a reflection of my merits as a human being or my judgment on policy issues.

                      I feel sorry for people who do.  It's kind of like people who have high school track ribbons hanging from their car's rear view mirror.

                      You will be shocked to learn that not everyone views the online blogosphere as a popularity contest.  

                      "[R]ather high-minded, if not a bit self-referential"--The Washington Post.

                      by Geekesque on Tue Nov 29, 2011 at 08:28:03 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Reading comments that I didn't type (0+ / 0-)

                        I didn't say it was a reflection on my worth as a human.

                        You said I was the sort of person who was ruining Daily Kos. Just pointing out, crowd sourcing suggests your opinion is an outlier. But I guess you revel in being the lone voice of truth. Like a birther does.

                        0: Number of Wall Street bankers arrested over crash of 2008. 4619: Number of Americans arrested protesting Wall Street's fraudulent practices 11/21/2011

                        by Scott Wooledge on Tue Nov 29, 2011 at 08:36:32 AM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Not ruining Daily Kos, just lowering (3+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          JTinDC, jdsnebraska, DarienComp

                          the level of its discourse.

                          This site is what it is.  What it isn't is a reality-based community.  

                          At one point, liberals prided themselves on being the reality-based community.  Now, the Daily Kos editorial standard is Truthiness.  

                          It's a pretty simple algorithm for how this site operates nowadays:

                          1)  if disagreement, determine:  

                          (a) which party is more leftwing; and

                          (b) which argument is more leftwing

                          2)  if the party in (a) is making the argument in (b) then that argument is factually correct and becomes a Known Fact.   If the party in (a) is not making the argument in (b), then whichever argument is Truthier is factually correct, but has only probational Known Fact status.

                          3)  OWS feeds are never wrong

                          "[R]ather high-minded, if not a bit self-referential"--The Washington Post.

                          by Geekesque on Tue Nov 29, 2011 at 08:51:25 AM PST

                          [ Parent ]

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