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View Diary: Pres. Obama: "Bankers Were Creative but Their Actions Weren't Necessarily Illegal" (175 comments)

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  •  Not everything hated by the public is prosecutable (11+ / 0-)

    and there are  sometimes mind bogglingly even for a lawyer, complex factual and lega lproblems of a technical nature with financial prosecutions. One of the reasons i love the Rakoff decision, which didn't exist before today unfortunately, is the clarification in requiring the recitation of facts. Citi for example may both have broken specific laws and broken SEC rules, or just one or neither. The plea bargain and recitation of facts now required will clarify some of the facts.

    But there's a whooooole lotta investigation required when you are talking tens of trillions of bucks in all sorts of funny securities. Funny and sleazy may not be either an SEC violation or a criminal one in a given case, and AG and POTUS don't do the civil actions which result if either in fact can be proven, and the prosecutors have to do all that detail work to determine what is in fact prosecutable, since jail time is involved, on each case or unit of prosecution, each specific bunch of sleazy securities or each robo signed foreclosure, separately, and the criminal actions usually go before the civil ones, so that Fifth Amendment rights are not mangled on the one hand in the civil case, and convictions in criminal cases pretty much eliminate the proof elements of civil cases, leaving the party to damages only.

    There are also a lot of foreign law issues here because a lot of the victims were sold the funky stuff outside the US.  

    While a president can set some policy with an AG, only the AG in fact determines if unit 3345 of that huge pile will in fact be prosecutable and will be prosecuted, and then does it again for unit 3346....

    •  OK, so the answer should have been 'we have (5+ / 0-)

      not found them to have done anything illegal for which we can prosecute". Not, well they did lots of things we don't like but MOST of it was legal.

      "I'm sculpting now. Landscapes mostly." ~ Yogi Bear

      by eXtina on Mon Nov 28, 2011 at 08:26:45 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  I would take that a step further: (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      heineken1717, Adam AZ, elmo, Cedwyn, Deep Texan

      not everything that by all rights ought to be prosecutable in a sane world is prosecutable in the real one.

      I support OWS. But that doesn't mean I support every dumb idea someone has about it.

      by kenlac on Mon Nov 28, 2011 at 08:27:31 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  thank you! (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Cedwyn, Deep Texan, Adam AZ

      For injecting a bit of reality into this diary. It really could use it.

    •  Yeah... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      joe shikspack, eXtina

      But then it would be nice if they actually made some sort of show of trying to investigate something...instead of blatantly not investigating financial crimes and actually prosecuting less financial crimes every year leading up to and after the crisis.

      •  Congressional investigatons are usually public but (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        eXtina

        criminal prosecutions usually are not, because of the fact, well known to detective story readers, that a lot usually has to be investigated in virtual square yards of work, to come up with the few virtual  square inches of admissible evidence that proves a particular criminal charge against a particular person or persons, and the exclusion of affirmative defensese of one kind or another.  There are frequently lots of names mentioned  as part of any investigation about whom unpleasant things are or may be found out, which do not lead to or constitute evidence of the specific elements of crime X against defendant Y, which need not become public. The actual indictments or informations are usually the part where whatever becomes public starts to do so. Nancy Grace and her antics are not part of any properly organized legal system. It is not customary to announce the status or termination of investigations which don't produce trials.

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