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View Diary: A 'frightened to death' Frank Luntz offers Republicans advice on Occupy Wall Street (174 comments)

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  •  One would think. (8+ / 0-)

    But let's not underestimate the persuasive power of stupid, stupid phrases. The whole "death panel" and "Ground Zero Mosque" debacle should rid us of the idea that these egregious soundbites are unconvincing for American voters.

    What is genuinely, truly stupid -- and unredeemably so -- is the bit about "careers." How friggin' arrogant is it to try to pedal a notion to struggling, unemployed "red state" voters that they should be thinking about "careers," when most are just trying to cobble together two or three demeaning, benefit free McJobs?

    I will grant you that this last bit about careers is unusual tone-deafness on Luntz's part.

    Nothing requires a greater effort of thought than arguments to justify the rule of non-thought. -- Milan Kundera

    by Dale on Thu Dec 01, 2011 at 01:17:42 PM PST

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    •  Not necessarily (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Dale, ahumbleopinion, Amber6541

      If his argument is that "government can give you jobs, but only private businesses will give you careers."

      •  Right. Except that you and I both know (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Amber6541, SoCalJayhawk

        how unlikely private companies are to generate new "careers" for anyone these days! :-(

        I just think that the garden-variety middle-class idea of a "career" is alien to a large and growing segment of the American public's working experience.

        The idea of a "career" calls up images of a salaried job, with opportunities for advancement, where the worker in question helps to write strategic reports, administrative memos, project proposals, and the like, while wearing a suit and tie and occupying a clean, if sterile environment. With one's own desk and computer.

        I'm guessing that this is an increasingly unlikely scenario for most Americans, and therefore quite likely to prompt reactions of incredulity and disgust when floated as campaign rhetoric:

        "Oh, so you'll give me a career? You mean, like, a 'career' in retail greeting? Good luck with that, you callous *#$@%!"

        Nothing requires a greater effort of thought than arguments to justify the rule of non-thought. -- Milan Kundera

        by Dale on Thu Dec 01, 2011 at 01:41:22 PM PST

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        •  Plenty of people have careers in the blue collar (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Amber6541, claude

          trades.  You don't have to work in a sterile environment to have a career.  You simply have to have room to advance IF you excel and work for a boss who recognizes the value of that.  

          Not everyone is willing to do the extra work to excel.  Thankfully the world needs both people who are willing to work extra hard and people who are willing to work just hard enough to keep working.

        •  You know what? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Native Light

          I'd be ok with that. I'd be ok with lots of job hopping, if I didn't have to worry so much about things that shouldn't be part of my job. As it stands, I'm deathly afraid of layoffs, because I'm too specialized to just hop into any old job, and I've got to have insurance for the sake of my family.

          In Iceland, I hear they routinely start working in entirely new fields. They have no fear of starting over. When a properly working safety net is in place, this is how it works, and this is how it should work.

          I should be able to turn my hobby into a career if I think it's worth doing full time. I shouldn't have to turn down freelance work because I need to keep the insurance at my day job, and yet I do.

      •  Most private businesses (6+ / 0-)

        don't give you careers. A career assumes you can move up somehow, that you can advance.

        There are very, very few private businesses that will let you do that anymore. They won't train you any more than absolutely necessary, they won't give you time off with pay to get your own training at your own cost, and they often won't even CONSIDER you for a job that's a promotion.

        However, the govt WILL do most of that. Some govt positions even give preference to current employees. Most govt positions give you some kind of tuition help, or pay for you to go to conferences, workshops, etc.

        Somehow, I don't see too many WalMart workers getting trained to move into management. Or hamburger flippers at MickyD's. Or dishwashers at Olive Garden.

        You're supposed to get your own training, somehow. With your non-existent savings, and taking those college courses that are offered at the scattered times you can get to attend, with your fluctuating work schedule.

        And when you don't, it's somehow your fault.

      •  Luntz has a role to fill... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        stunvegas, melo

        He is the guy who fills the GOP Twinky with delicious creamy
        fluffy white filling of indeterminate origin.

        If his argument is that "government can give you jobs, but only private businesses will give you careers."

        The above quote is pure unadulterated BS.

        How many politicians have government careers?  How many military men and women have government careers?

        Firemen and women?  Policemen and women?  Teachers?

        Hello?  Frank?  Are you speaking BS to idiots?

        I think....therefore the answer is yes.

    •  There is nothing unusual about Luntz's tone deaf- (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ahumbleopinion

      ness.  It comes with the territory of still believing in fairies, unicorns, and the failed "trickle down" ideology that the GOP still tries to prop up.  With Luntz attempting to fire cylinders that will not ever fire again.

      I certainly don't underestimate the pervasive power of stupid.
      It is what has kept the GOtP functioning this long.

      I look at it this way...you can fool a lot of stupid people with shallow catch phrases.  Shallow and paper-thin.  

      A certain number of those folks are irredeemable as far as their potential to A) see through the BS they have been fed, and B) do something about it.

      But there are people on the fringes of the GOP who are open minded enough to look at what is going on and begin to "get it".

      Those are the people who are worth talking to.

    •  Tone Deaf? (4+ / 0-)

      He is not tone deaf....he's brilliant at changing words to mean something different and he has been totally succesful in guiding the GOP! No one should underestimate this horrible man and his influence on the ignorant people who listen to and vote republican. Words are powerful and he knows exactly how to change them to effect the thinking of people. Th e GOP has him on speed dial plus he is constantly at the capital attending GOP meetings with the highest officials in order to wordsmith their public presentation. AND NO ONE ELECTED HIM!!

      •  indeed. "I get it" (3+ / 0-)

        is not tone-deaf.

        7. The three most important words you can say to an Occupier: 'I get it.'

        "First off, here are three words for you all: 'I get it.' . . . 'I get that you're angry. I get that you've seen inequality. I get that you want to fix the system."

        Then, he instructed, offer Republican solutions to the problem.

        angry

        inequality

        fix the system

        Those are his words.  The man isn't tone-deaf if he sees that.  Hell, there are Kossaks who don't see that.  I just told my partner, this man is scary smart.  That doesn't make him right, of course, but since when has that had anything to do with what politicians say or do?

        Deal with it.

        don't always believe what you think

        by claude on Thu Dec 01, 2011 at 07:03:03 PM PST

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        •  Exactly (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          claude, greeseyparrot
          That doesn't make him right, of course, but since when has that had anything to do with what politicians say or do?

          It's f***ing criminal that the liberal/progressive side  doesn't have anyone as smart as Luntz is at creating a message.

          "Turn off the AM Radio and get invited to your own life." - Jimmy Dore

          by stunvegas on Thu Dec 01, 2011 at 07:36:41 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

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