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View Diary: What the Hell Is Wrong With Al Franken? (326 comments)

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  •  asdf (10+ / 0-)
    Franken had initially supported the Iraq War but opposed the 2007 troop surge. In an interview with MSNBC’s Joe Scarborough, Franken said that he "believed Colin Powell", whose presentation at the United Nations convinced him that the war was necessary. However, since then he had come to believe that "we were misled into the war" and urged the Democratically-controlled Congress to refuse to pass appropriations bills to fund the war if they don't include timetables for leaving Iraq. In an interview with Josh Marshall, Franken said of the Democrats, "I think we've gotta make [President George W. Bush] say, 'OK, I'm cutting off funding because I won't agree to a timetable.'"

    This vote is one thing...the intial support of the war is another...purity has no bounds...

    •  I respect Franken for admiting he was wrong on (15+ / 0-)

      this.

      And as I just noted in an update to the diary, I hope we can discuss our differences of opinion on his voting with more measured tones.

      Yes, this is a critical diary. (Tame, in my view.) But it's not an invitation to assassinate his character.

      Okay, got that out.

      I'm "THE" Troubadour," and not "Troubadour" without the article. We're different people here at DK :)

      by David Harris Gershon on Sat Dec 03, 2011 at 07:17:02 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Franken sets the tone for character analysis (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        mksutherland, Debs2

        when it comes to the fascist enablement of fascist enabling fascist enablers.

      •  Why would we use "measured tones" when (4+ / 0-)

        discussing his efforts to pass legislation that will cripple the free press in our country?

        Why, when questioning why he'd vote for this, should we ignore his history of supporting measures that lead directly to great harm to this country?

        When multi-millionaires vote for legislation that harms us but benefits multi-millionaires, it's the rankest idiocy to ignore that they are personally benefiting.

        Given the mans carreer and ongoing financial intrest, if he had any integrity, he'd be abstaining.

        As much as I want to see him vote no on this, I'd respect an abstaintion even more.

        She's the sort of person who would not only happily stay in Omelas, but would ask "Couldn't life be more wonderful if we threw a few more kids in there?"

        by JesseCW on Sun Dec 04, 2011 at 07:12:57 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  What if his abstention could have been (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Little

          the tie breaker?

          On your other point I don't know. I'm not sure what is meant by "measured tones". I don't think The Troubadour means we should bend over and take it.

          At least I hope not. TT is one of my favorite writers here, and doesn't appear to be a political pacifist.

          •  He's really got an immense conflict (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            James Hepburn

            of interest here.

            It's like Di-Fi voting on defense appropriation bills that involve millions going to her Husband, or the damned Republican rancher whose name I can't remember right now voting on a BLM grazing lease bill.

            She's the sort of person who would not only happily stay in Omelas, but would ask "Couldn't life be more wonderful if we threw a few more kids in there?"

            by JesseCW on Sun Dec 04, 2011 at 10:40:30 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

      •  So if he admitted he (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        JesseCW, Terra Mystica

        was wrong on this preemptive, illegal war why in the hell did he just vote for this new abomination of a AUMF? Now that's some weaselly political irreconcilable  bamboozling. Hard to deal with it but more and more so called Democratic 'moderates', are showing their true colors, while the state of our nation is fast tracking into fascist mode.  Looks more like collusion then complicity.  Perhaps having the owners of the place control the flow of free information appeals to the centrist The Wayer's as people can actually find out what's going on globally. They can also organize against it and participate in defining reality. Too democratic, not to be a threat, even to a so called liberal comic turned pol.        

        •  Earmarks and/or pork is why, imo. (0+ / 0-)

          The earmarks put into these bills (authorization/approps) is astounding.  That puts every Senator in direct conflict between the right thing to do and keeping promises to constituent interests.  And Obama probably won't veto it, for similar reasons.

          It explains his vote on the Udall Amendment, and his vote for the larger bill when the Amendment failed.

          The real travesty, to me, is that something as earth shattering as this expansion of the AUMF was contained within, and masked by, the Defense Authorization bill.  By a Dem.  That could not have been unintentional.

          This stake to the heart of the Constitution should have been debated and voted on separately.

          •  Pork alone (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Terra Mystica

            cannot explain these deplorable votes. Congress has a 9% favorable rating and that's among all of their constituents. the only interest they are voting for are the owners of the place, and their enforcers the MIC/security state. they are throwing out the rule of law for the unfettered anti-democratic 'theory and implementation of oligarchical collectivism', as Orwell called it. Udall just gave the Vichy  Dems a lame cover which is pathetic, just bad kabuki.

            •  Totally agree on the top-level concept of kabuki, (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              shaharazade

              who it serves, and everything else you said.  I was just reflecting on the fragility of the cloistered politics of earmarks.  Once they're negotiated and in the bill, no one wants to revisit the process.

              It's weak and cowardly, but a real influence on behavior (perhaps because of the weak and cowardly part...).

              I also think you're gracious on the 9% figure.  After this, very, very few are going to "approve" of the job Congress is doing.  In my little circle of staunch Rs and lib/progressive Dems, everyone is upset about this.  Outside that circle, with people who's politics I don't know, when I bring it up they're angry (and ask for the bill number).

              This may be the proverbial "straw"  that gets everyone to wake up.  Maybe.

              •  The few conservatives (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Terra Mystica

                I know or are related to are not at all happy with what's going down. Their solutions and explanations are usually upside down and ass backwards however.  Strangely the only people I hear defending this horror show are the die hard Democratic Obama fans,  'moderates' who refuse to look at the reality they are supporting.

                One couple we know who were apologist's for this administration and Obama, changed their tune when their son a college student and liberal, got arrested and roughed up in an Occupy Portland 'eviction'. They watched what went down on live stream and they now are not talking 'it's the Republican obstructionists' or any other of the lame reasons given for the Democratic, bi-partisan  collusion.    

                •  Not to digress overly, but what you describe is a (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  shaharazade

                  case for the draft.  I don't know your feelings about the draft in particular, but the general concept of "it's happening to all of us" or actual shared sacrifice is potent.

                  Rs used to have a "meme" about a liberal is a conservative who's never been mugged, or something to that effect.  If we ever get into a scenario where we really are in a position, together, of shared sacrifice, watch out DC.

                  The Occupy "movement" (the organizers say it's not a movement) has the potential to make that happen.

                  To better times...

    •  There's really no excuse (19+ / 0-)

      for this:

      Franken said that he "believed Colin Powell"

      I knew Powell was lying as I was watching him. But Al Franken didn't catch on? C'mon.

      Please don't call yourself a "DFH." It's not helpful.

      by VictorLaszlo on Sun Dec 04, 2011 at 02:04:48 AM PST

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      •  Yes, that is a stretch. Defies belief really. (10+ / 0-)

        As the blogger Bartcop likes to say, if an Okie with an I.Q. of 64 (Bartcop's self-deprecating way of referring to himself) could figure out Colin Powell was lying, it's ridiculous to claim all the smart folks with security clearances or White House press passes didn't know it too.

        Of course, now the exact same con game is being played on the public with Iran.

        48forEastAfrica - Donate to Oxfam The Dutch kids' chorus Kinderen voor Kinderen wishes all the world's children freedom from hunger, ignorance, and war.

        by lotlizard on Sun Dec 04, 2011 at 02:53:24 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  It was probably like many of us, (0+ / 0-)

        we wanted to believe Colin Powell -- not to go to war, but because we had admired him.

        "Since when did obeying corporate power become patriotic." Going the Distance

        by Going the Distance on Sun Dec 04, 2011 at 07:12:27 AM PST

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        •  What "we" are you talking about? (6+ / 0-)

          Powell was part of covering up Mai Lai for the love of god.

          Why the fuck would anyone admire that?

          Why the hell would anyone be willing to sacrafice tens of thousands of human lives based a few props and a melodramatic speech?

          To believe that show, you had to be hungry for war and looking for an excuse, an authoritarian follower who reflexively believes whatever anyone in power tells them, or an astounding dullard without the sense to pour piss out of a boot.

          She's the sort of person who would not only happily stay in Omelas, but would ask "Couldn't life be more wonderful if we threw a few more kids in there?"

          by JesseCW on Sun Dec 04, 2011 at 07:15:48 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  You have to remember (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Terra Mystica, VictorLaszlo

            There are a lot of people whose views and opinions are shaped by the PR narrative put out on TeeVee.

            One narrative is that Colin Powell was a fucking saint beyond reproach who just got burned by Bush on the Iraq WMD intelligence.

          •  What an uncalled for response. (0+ / 0-)

            You don't know me.  How would you know what I am hungry for?  And James below isn't any better explaining that my view was formed by television.  Who are you all to make assumptions about my world view, or my education?

            To make it clear, I marched against the war in very major march in San Francisco.  Protested locally and did not believe Colin Powell.  I wanted to believe him or feel right about him, however, as did many other people, because in many other arenas, up until this point,  he behaved honorably.  Although I disagreed with him on issues, his public comments always struck me as thoughtful or fair.

            It is possible to have respect for some people with whom you may not see eye-to-eye.  It is possible to want the best from our leaders, even if we end up being disappointed frequently  And it is possible to end up over reaching when commenting for simply no good reason.

            "Since when did obeying corporate power become patriotic." Going the Distance

            by Going the Distance on Tue Dec 06, 2011 at 02:13:29 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  Only a blithering idiot would have believed (2+ / 0-)

      Powell.

      It was a transparent and pathetic display.

      Anyone who fell for it is without critical thinking skills and their opinions should not be taken seriously.  

      She's the sort of person who would not only happily stay in Omelas, but would ask "Couldn't life be more wonderful if we threw a few more kids in there?"

      by JesseCW on Sun Dec 04, 2011 at 07:07:54 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

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