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  •  duck, duck, duck, GOOSE! (0+ / 0-)

    I asked what you DO support, and you re-iterated what you DON'T support.  

    So basically, you ducked.  He who ducks, loses.

    On the other hand, I have proposals:

    Massive nonviolent civil disobedience protest, based on the Clamshell Alliance model that successfully shut down the construction of new nuclear plants in the US (terrible irony, that, as nuclear is a non-carbon energy source, despite whatever controversies it raises).  

    Those tactics can be applied to anything related to coal and fossil fuels.  Starting with coal is best since it's the biggest offender in terms of CO2 output per unit of power delivered.  The straightforward goal being to shut down coal plants and create enormous publicity about climate risk, moving the debate off its present stalemate.  

    Apply the same tactics to the financial powers-that-be, shutting down Wall Street repeatedly and demanding economic justice.  

    And I have a long long long list of specific types of tactical moves that can be used in those types of demonstrations, probably more than anyone else on this site has proposed.

    So when I come out against violent acts (by which I do not include damage to property), I have a phonebook-thick batch of alternatives to propose.  If you duck that issue, you lose your standing.  It's that simple.  

    "Minus one vote for the Democrat" equals "plus one vote for the Republican." Arithmetic doesn't care about your feelings.

    by G2geek on Mon Dec 05, 2011 at 01:52:47 PM PST

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    •  Actually, I think you know I don't duck (0+ / 0-)

      If you were following along properly, you'd see I was trying to keep you out of hot water. Advocating for violence is a bannable offense.

      •  there's a difference between saying: (0+ / 0-)

        "Yo dude, cut it out, you can get banned for that," vs. saying "I repudiate that evil language!"  

        The latter, without something substantive to back it up (such as principled pacifism or in my case tactical nonviolence) looks like an attempt to curry favor with management, by making yourself out to be Someone Who Supports The Rules.  

        "Minus one vote for the Democrat" equals "plus one vote for the Republican." Arithmetic doesn't care about your feelings.

        by G2geek on Mon Dec 05, 2011 at 02:18:40 PM PST

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        •  I am indeed someone who supports the rules (0+ / 0-)

          I think its a big part of whats made this site successful over time. And ya, I don't support violence under any circumstance.

          •  I don't believe you when you say (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            G2geek

            that you don't support violence under any circumstances.  Unless you are an idiot or heartless, which you clearly aren't, I can imagine a number of situations in which you would support violence.  Clearly you don't support violence in this context, but would you really say that breaking a window to save someone trapped behind it is something you wouldn't support?  Even if there were no other way to save that person?

            There revolution will not be televised. But it will be blogged, a lot. Probably more so than is necessary.

            by AoT on Mon Dec 05, 2011 at 05:33:19 PM PST

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          •  so if someone was trying to kill your kid... (0+ / 0-)

            .... while you stood there, you wouldn't try to stop him physically?  

            And if someone attacked you with a baseball bat, you wouldn't try to defend yourself physically?  

            You do realize, don't you, that the ability for such pure pacifists to exist in a society, is directly dependent upon the willingness of others to use force to protect them?  

            I used to be an absolutist pacifist since the age of about 6.  I found the limits of my pacifism when someone I knew was working in Nicaragua and got murdered by the Contras.  When under attack, you fight back or you die, so there's no "sorry I can't fight I don't believe in it" while your friends are getting their throats cut by fascist thugs.  At that point you grab the rifle and you fight off those Contras, or they win the darwinian sweepstakes and you lose.

            "Minus one vote for the Democrat" equals "plus one vote for the Republican." Arithmetic doesn't care about your feelings.

            by G2geek on Mon Dec 05, 2011 at 07:04:08 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

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