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View Diary: Can anyone help make sense of this news on NDAA? (57 comments)

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  •  I'm not a legal beagle, (1+ / 0-)
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    johnny wurster

    and all this verbiage about NDAA is getting very dense for me.

    When you say,

    IOW, I really think the "Obama objects to expanded detention authority" is a dog that won't hunt.

    Are you saying Obama is not opposed to trashing due process?

    I'm lost, which is why a started this diary.

    A few give much, a few give all, and most Americans give....NOTHING! ~~~ Support our troops - Bring them home

    by Hound Dog on Sat Dec 10, 2011 at 06:12:10 PM PST

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    •  If you assume that military detention and (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Hound Dog, VClib

      due process are mutually exclusive, then sure, I think Obama is fine w/ trashing due process.  There are levels of due process, though: a military commission is probably more due process than the "the judicial guarantees which are recognized as indispensable by civilized peoples" that are required by the Geneva Conventions, but is less than that afforded by a civilian trial.  IOW, due process will not require that someone captured on the battlefield pursuant to the war power be afforded a civilian trial.

      •  So, (0+ / 0-)

        Obama is on track to trash due process, by enabling the government, through NDAA, to use military forces to snatch and grab U.S citizens, on no warrant or indictment, on someone's whim, with no right to a jury trial, and send them anywhere in the world to face a military tribunal? or not?

        A few give much, a few give all, and most Americans give....NOTHING! ~~~ Support our troops - Bring them home

        by Hound Dog on Sat Dec 10, 2011 at 06:22:26 PM PST

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        •  Well, he wants to preserve his discretion to do so (3+ / 0-)
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          Hound Dog, BradyB, VClib

          This is basic separation of powers stuff: Obama may think as a matter of policy that US citizens capture abroad should be tried in civilian courts, but I don't think he wants Congress to be the boss of him.  He wants the discretion to set that as policy but still reserve the discretion to make that decision himself.  

          I think that's exactly what's driving this.

          •  Unitary presidency, redux, (1+ / 0-)
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            johnny wurster

            sounds like to me.

            A few give much, a few give all, and most Americans give....NOTHING! ~~~ Support our troops - Bring them home

            by Hound Dog on Sat Dec 10, 2011 at 06:28:09 PM PST

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            •  Not really. (1+ / 0-)
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              Hound Dog

              Unitary executive theory would say, "even if Congress passes this law it's void because no law can limit the President's discretion."  If Obama just thinks it's shitty policy, then that's not unitary executive thinking at work.  To the contrary, if he's threatening veto over it then it means he takes seriously the ability of Congress to limit Presidential authority.

              I don't mean to nitpick, but that distinction, I think, is pretty important.

              •  All well taken. (1+ / 0-)
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                johnny wurster

                I am not a legal or constitutional scholar.  I'm just John Q. Joe Blow Public, trying to get some things sorted out that are giving me a literal headache.  

                A few give much, a few give all, and most Americans give....NOTHING! ~~~ Support our troops - Bring them home

                by Hound Dog on Sat Dec 10, 2011 at 06:35:24 PM PST

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          •  Except that section 1031 is not limited (0+ / 0-)

            to those captured abroad as "the battlefield" is right here.

            There is no saving throw against stupid.

            by Throw The Bums Out on Sat Dec 10, 2011 at 07:03:12 PM PST

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