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View Diary: Saving Our Democracy (102 comments)

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  •  Are you and Johnny Wurster a team? (7+ / 0-)

    You two are obviously not Progressives, and you so often show up together in threads, almost always taking issue with the thrust of what the diarist is saying.
      Why do you do it? This is a progressive blog. There are other political blogs where your conservative/Republican views would be welcome.

    "We the People of the United States...." -U.S. Constitution

    by elwior on Sun Dec 11, 2011 at 03:36:25 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  It's so obviously (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      elwior, pot, cybersaur

      contrived. I thought I was the only one who ever noticed that....

      It is time to #Occupy Media.

      by lunachickie on Sun Dec 11, 2011 at 04:24:14 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  elwior - I am guilty too (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      radical simplicity

      My comments here are unrelated to this specific diary.

      What coffeetalk, johnny, several others and I try to do is offer some balance and in particular try and call out errors of fact. I continue to be amazed at how many factual errors are included in diaries and many comments that often start an echo chamber of misinformation. If we want to be successful advocates we can't rely on incorrect information because then our positions can be easily debunked.

      I can't speak for coffeetalk or johnny but personally I just love playing the devil's advocate. Opinions are opinions and everyone is entitled to their own opinion. However, if the basis of the opinions are factual errors, or significant lapses in logic, someone should point that out. Public policy positions should be able to stand the test of significant review and debate. If they can't then those positions will not stand the scrutiny they will receive in the bare knuckles world of politics outside the comfort of DKOS. I think that coffeetalk and I do this in a very respectful manner. johnny isn't diplomatic, but he is the most knowledgeable person on our site regarding the current IRS code for both individuals and corporations (he is a tax lawyer) and is one of the few people here who can actually read and understand 10K and other SEC filings, including the legal footnotes. In my view that makes him a tremendous resource to all of us.

      Kos welcome all Democrats, not just progressives. I have been an active Democrat since I was eight years old and handing our flyers for my uncle who was running in the Democratic primary for the Massachusetts state House. I bring some experiences in the corporate and startup world that aren't common here and can often provide another perspective for people to consider as they determine their views on specific topics. I have a lot of fun here, that's why I blog at DKOS.  

      "let's talk about that"

      by VClib on Sun Dec 11, 2011 at 06:01:43 PM PST

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      •  the problem is not (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        elwior, aliasalias, pot, cybersaur

        "devil's advocacy".  The problem is the continued and willful disregard for actual points being made in the diary and/or the follow-up discussion.

        To wit:

        The question was "when were religious corporations granted legal corporate status in the United States"?

        It is time to #Occupy Media.

        by lunachickie on Sun Dec 11, 2011 at 06:22:05 PM PST

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        •  lunachickie - they may not know (0+ / 0-)

          A little searching on Google would suggest between 1913 and 1920. The income tax amendment was passed in 1913 and the Revenue Act of 1918 allowed deductions for contributions to certain not for profit organizations who would have had to register to achieve that not for profit status.

          "let's talk about that"

          by VClib on Sun Dec 11, 2011 at 06:39:37 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  asdf (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            elwior, pot, Pescadero Bill, cybersaur
            certain not-for-profit organizations

            Should we simply assume that churches should be included in the "certain" category? Or should we take the word of an alleged expert who wrote only this:

            religious entities are corporate forms, often formed under a specific religious corp statute

            Gimme a break. The gaggle of words thrown out in an attempt to look informed and authoritative really didn't say a whole lot of anything germane to the actual point of the diary.

            See, I enjoy my own little brand of devil's advocacy out here. I try to pin the word-saladsmiths down to specifics. Usually, they don't have any. And then the actual, on-topic conversation tends to continue.

            It is time to #Occupy Media.

            by lunachickie on Sun Dec 11, 2011 at 06:56:18 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Religious organizations are corporations (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              johnny wurster

              organized under Section 501(c)(3) of the IRS code. To be eligible for tax deductible contributions you must be a corporation registered under this specific code with the IRS. However, I thought your question was not "if" religious organizations in the US are corporations, but rather "when" the practice either started or required. My guess is that johnny with his access to the Lexus/Nexus data base and tax background will come up with a definitive answer on the "when" question. The "if" question is easy to answer, if you want your supporters to be able to have their contributions be deductible for income tax purposes you must be a corporation under 501(c) (3).

              "let's talk about that"

              by VClib on Sun Dec 11, 2011 at 07:28:31 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  Here ya go: (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              VClib, DollyMadison

              It's a search of federal decisions showing that churches are corporations.


            •  The question, once again (0+ / 0-)

              was as follows:

              "when were religious corporations granted legal corporate status in the United States"?

              WHEN were they granted legal corporate status?


              The question was WHEN did this happen? It was not always thus.

              It is time to #Occupy Media.

              by lunachickie on Mon Dec 12, 2011 at 04:52:46 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

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