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View Diary: “I Don’t Believe That”: Reforming the Debate to Reform Education (25 comments)

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  •  Unreal (1+ / 0-)
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    redlum jak

    If you follow the link to the Amanda Ripley piece you'll see that this teacher's union talking point was already debunked as an "apples-to-oranges" comparison. Just ask any college professor who's taught classes with a mix of U.S. and international students: we're way behind, at all levels of the socio-economic scale.

    •  International students who come to the US (0+ / 0-)

      are the cream of the crop. We don't get their average kids. We certainly don't get their poor kids.

      Fry, don't be a hero! It's not covered by our health plan!

      by elfling on Wed Dec 14, 2011 at 01:44:30 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Not true in many cases actually (0+ / 0-)

        A quite common situation is that there are heavily subsidized local universities with ultra-competitive admissions. The students would prefer to attend those, but if they don't get in, and their parents have enough money, then they come over here.

        •  Note the "parents have enough money" (1+ / 0-)
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          International students are almost always paying full tuition.

          We aren't getting their poor kids and we aren't getting international kids who have to work full time at McDonalds to pay the rent (because they're not allowed to work). The populations are not comparable.

          Fry, don't be a hero! It's not covered by our health plan!

          by elfling on Wed Dec 14, 2011 at 02:05:54 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Well that's the point (0+ / 0-)

            My dad teaches at Stanford. So you're talking about affluent American kids as compared to affluent kids from China, India, Eastern Europe, wherever. And those kids coming in as freshmen kick ass on American kids, so much so that if you look at all of the difficult majors, there are hardly any American kids even still there by graduation. And the gap between the education received by affluent American kids and poor American kids is as great as anywhere in the world. We're in deep doo-doo, and if we don't change it, our role in the world is going to be fundamentally redefined in a generation or two.

            •  generation or two? lol. (0+ / 0-)

              "Repression works only to strengthen and knit the repressed." --J. Steinbeck

              by livjack on Wed Dec 14, 2011 at 03:20:30 PM PST

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              •  Yeah, maybe less . . . (0+ / 0-)
              •  Well, we're still riding on our past achievements (0+ / 0-)

                A lot of the smartest people in the world still come here to pursue their ambitions, and that's where a lot of our more cutting edge new technologies and companies have come from. But the gap is narrowing quickly, and more and more of the "best and brightest" are staying right where they are to build their futures. Over time, that will erode our position in the world economy.

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