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View Diary: Enough with Hysteria on "Indefinite Detention" - Give Me Facts. (198 comments)

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  •  Why do we have to give you facts? (7+ / 0-)

    Are you incapable of giving us the facts?

    Why post a diary one way or another?  If you don't agree/believe, do your own darn homework and show us that the 'Greenwald-nuked' diarists are wrong.

    •  Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Troubadour

      The burden of proof should not be on the diarist, it is on the people who are claiming U.S. citizens can be held without trial.

      Unfortunately, I think the proof is in my posting above which it taken directly from the senate bill.

      •  I think claiming 'hysteria' requires some proof (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Avila, LaEscapee

        too.

        And I don't find the claims that have been made to be all that 'extraordinary', sadly.  For the last decade, we've watched our rights being eroded away one by one.  At this point, claiming that we were actually getting rights back would be the 'extraordinary' claim.

        •  I haven't seen the claim (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Fogiv, SoCalSal

          that we are getting rights back made, except as one possible interpretation of the fact that the bill asserts civilian authority over an area of policy previously dominated by the military.  However, I seen the claim made constantly that the bill is a power grab, that it authorizes indefinite detention of Americans, that Obama is Bush, and even crazier assertions based on nothing but fear and Greenwaldian zeitgeist.

          A process cannot be understood by stopping it. Understanding must move with the flow of the process, must join it and flow with it. --The First Law of Mentat

          by Troubadour on Thu Dec 15, 2011 at 04:23:48 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  You don't. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      vintage dem, Troubadour

      But if want the diarist to support your cause you have a natural incentive to do so.  The diarist is clearly asking for help (and so are many others) properly understanding a very complex issue regarding the law.  That is what this place is for, isn't it?

    •  Are you saying it's illegitimate (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Fogiv

      for me to request that people who've made extraordinary claims, and engaged in extraordinary vitriol on behalf of those claims, convince me of them?  If they aren't interested in persuading people, I'm not sure what they're doing blogging and writing editorials.

      Furthermore, this was an open-ended request for information from people of all positions on the issue, and I've already seen plenty of contrary information and arguments in the comments that oppose Greenwald et al's conclusions.

      It is not up to me to prove you or anyone else wrong.  It is up to you to prove yourself right, especially on matters of such importance and emotional potency.

      A process cannot be understood by stopping it. Understanding must move with the flow of the process, must join it and flow with it. --The First Law of Mentat

      by Troubadour on Thu Dec 15, 2011 at 04:22:01 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

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