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View Diary: Team Shalom/Progressive Zionist Fry'd Daze (24 comments)

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  •  I did not say he was all bad... (0+ / 0-)

    just that I think you are perhaps wearing rose colored glasses.

    I provided a specific. What do you think about the interactions with the OIC and Muslim Brotherhood for that matter.  Do you believe this helps empower them? Do you believe they care about Israel or the rights of free people?

    As such, that is why I made the comment.  I hear Obama. But do you think any American president could say anything else without jeopardizing his/her political survival?

    It's a mixed bag, and one day we may look back and see that the PR did not meet the reality, like on domestic matters, as I mentioned.

    •  I did not say that you said he was all bad (0+ / 0-)

      where did I say that?

      Whoa I just wrote a great response and it disappeared. WTF?

      •  Where did I say you said that? (0+ / 0-)

        Aren't you doing what you just indicated I did?

        Your response in seeking to defend him implied that I was overly critical.

        I was mainly pointing out that Obama's lofty rhetoric has shown in the past to be disconnected from actual performance.

        I have also lost some good comments at times.

    •  To answer since the GOS ate my other comment (0+ / 0-)
      What do you think about the interactions with the OIC and Muslim Brotherhood for that matter.

      I think the President and his administration are doing the best they can for American foreign policy. I think they have to talk to the OIC to maintain our interests in the area. One of those interests is a strong and secure Jewish State. If we were to make enemies of those countries how much could we affect their policies. We couldn't and that runs counter to all of our intrests.

      The Egyptian people voted for the Brotherhood. That was their choice as a democracy. We have to respect that, now... if their government goes against our interests in the region I think we have to act accordingly but until they do, I think the President is doing the right thing.

      Do you believe this helps empower them?

      Not particularly. Let's take the Egyptian elections. 70% of the vote so far is for Rightwing reactionary Islamist parties. Our scorn for their democracy would not help this change. Sometimes democracy is messy, and sometimes the results are not what we like. But we have to judge them by how the rule when they rule, not how we think they will rule.

      Do you believe they care about Israel or the rights of free people?

      No, of course not, but, the President of the U.S. is not responsible for who likes Israel or not. He has his own responsibilities to handle.

      As for political survival... I don't think going against Israel or being neutral will cost him the election if that is what you are asking. The Jewish Lobby doesn't have that kind of power despite what the anti-Semitic nutjobs say.

      It's a mixed bag, and one day we may look back and see that the PR did not meet the reality, like on domestic matters, as I mentioned.

      No, really it isn't a mixed bag. The facts line up securely in the Presidents favor. He has gone up and above for the Jewish people and Israel. That is a matter of fact. What my saying it doesn't make it so? Well how about the actual record.

      The Obama administration has gone up and above to help financially securing high levels of aid through 2018. The Obama administration has taken an active role in the development of "Arrow" and "Magic Wand", not too mention financing of "Iron Dome"

      It was American intervention that got the Israeli Ambassador out of a hairy situation in Cairo. It is this administration supporting Israel in the U.N. EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.

      That anyone even questions this is beyond ridiculous to me.

      •  I'll just say that... (0+ / 0-)

        I think there is a difference in dealing with people who ARE our enemies as if they are not.  I did not imply not to talk to them. I disagree that we affect their policy.  They affect ours. I think our approach is not firm enough, and too accommodating. In the end, I hope it does not create a climate here, as in Europe, where Israel is perceived as an outlaw state and Jews are threatened because of Israel.

        I suggest you read more about the OIC and the UN and the underlying efforts going on to restrict human rights and istill the precepts of the Cairo Declaration.  I think some of Obama's moves are much too neutral in that regard, and our accommodation will be met with more and more demands.

        As to whether an American president could speak any differently about Israel than Obama has, I think you are mistaken about the political reality.  It's not because of Jews, but because America, instinctively, supports Israel.  Americans see Israel much as we see ourselves.

        If it was not a mixed bag, why are so many who support Israel speaking out against some of the moves by Obama, and not right in line behind him? You would think it would be the other way if what you suggest is so.

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