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View Diary: Thursday Classical Music OPUS 64: Beethoven's Ninth Symphony (part 2) (115 comments)

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  •  Yup. He had to be turned around to know they (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Boxer7, x

    were applauding.  I don't know what movement it was after.  (They used to clap between movements back then -- that's considered bad style nowadays).  

    My favorite 9th first performance anecdote, which I can't find a source for yet, says that after that performance of the 9th, they (Beethoven and all) went out to a tavern and argued late into the night about where all the money from the ticket receipts went.  

    •  Ludwig Van had a complicated relationship with (2+ / 0-)
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      Dumbo, SherwoodB

      the public.  Nobody really liked him very much, and probably he just was a really nasty guy to be around.  But even so the public still loved him.

      You have exactly 10 seconds to change that look of disgusting pity into one of enormous respect!

      by Cartoon Peril on Thu Jan 05, 2012 at 09:37:19 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  When or Why or How (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Dumbo, DtheO

      Do you know anything about why it changed  to be considered  'bad style'

      •  No idea. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Julie Gulden, DtheO, SherwoodB

        It seems that the concert-going experience is a "stuffier" social event today than it was back in ye olden days.

        •  Went looking (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Boxer7, x, Dumbo, SherwoodB

          and found this interesting piece.
          Alex Ross: The Rest Is Noise

          I find this ponderous silence forced, unsettling, and in places absolutely anti-musical, as after the big movements of concertos. It’s crazy for three thousand people to sit in Carnegie Hall contemplating Tchaikovsky’s First Piano Concerto as if it were some Buddhist monument, rather than a rousing, passionate entertainment.

          Seems that the practice began in the early 1900's.  Applause between mvts still happened on occasion up to the 1950's.

          Interesting that the practice is counter to what some composers intended and that some like Brahms, Bach and Mozart were offended when there was no applause after a mvt.

          •  It's one reason I don't enjoy concerts that much. (2+ / 0-)
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            SherwoodB, NYFM

            It is a weird rule, and it seems to come from what is an otherwise good development -- the growing respect for the music and musicians as more than shoe-shine boys.  Raised up to God-like levels of respect, the concert hall (my theory) became more like a church.  And so, when we come to the twentieth and twenty-first centuries, it's a stuffy formal event that attracts new compositions that themselves are stuffy and formal and assume before they are ever played that they should receive a God-like level of respect -- before it is earned.

            •  Me too (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Dumbo

              and maybe it is the church-like atmosphere that is behind it having been raised in a very very very strict RC home.  

              Ross says this:

              By around 1900, a portion of the public had embraced the idea that certain works should be heard in rapt silence. An Encyclopedia Britannica article in the pre-World War I period, which Howard Shanet quotes in his history of the New York Philharmonic (p. 144), observes: “The reverential spirit which abolished applause in church has tended to spread to the theatre and the concert-room, largely under the influence of the quasi-religious atmosphere of the Wagner performances at Baireuth [sic]. In Germany (e.g. the court theatres at Berlin) applause during the performance and ‘calling before the curtain’ have been officially forbidden,   etc....

              Maybe I had too many "thou shalt nots" in my previous lifetime.

      •  It's a problem for classical music (4+ / 0-)
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        Dumbo, Boxer7, raboof, SherwoodB

        Artur Rubinstein, I think, once said he wished his audiences would be like jazz audiences and applaud any time they were moved to it by the music.  I believe Andre Previn, who is the rare artist who has had great success in both genres, has also said he prefers the audience participation at jazz concerts, which inspires the musicians.

        I'd rather be in a cabin by the lake in Maine.

        by DtheO on Fri Jan 06, 2012 at 09:50:14 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

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