Skip to main content

View Diary: Why Stratfor was Really Hacked (Updated) (214 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  Don't get me wrong (5+ / 0-)

    The points made here are extremely good and thought-provoking.  But I still find myself wondering:  how much money was "donated" from the credit cards - how badly hurt financialy were the credit card owners?  Certainly proves that the security agency was hacked.  

    Just can't help but wonder.

    •  I doubt they were hurt to any real extent. (8+ / 0-)

      First, credit cards usually have fairly low limits on what cardholders are liable for if their cards are used fraudulently.

      Second, given the high visibility of the crime, chances are the credit card companies would even waive those limits.  They probably even found a way to take back all of the money anyway.

      •  Theft is theft. (4+ / 0-)

        It's more than a little disappointing, watching so many people here bending over backwards to say it's okay this time.

        "If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich.." - John F. Kennedy: Inaugural Address, January 20, 1961. We are the 99%.

        by IndieGuy on Tue Dec 27, 2011 at 05:53:50 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Except I'm not. (5+ / 0-)

          I made zero statements about the morality or criminality of the act or my belief in such tactics.  My comment only addressed the degree of 'hurt' felt by cardholders, and would have been exactly the same as if made about when I was the victim of a fraudulent card usage a couple of years ago.

          So you might be a bit better off not making 'assumptions' about people 'bending over backwards'.  It might be that you're projecting your own views onto what people are saying.

          •  You are making light of the damage done. (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Rich in PA, coffeetalk

            You are appointing yourself the arbiter of how much "hurt" somebody will feel, based on your claim to a similar experience.

            I do like the way you make the credit card companies out to be good guys ("Chances are" they'll "probably even" play nice), but I'm not so sure that's going to bear out in the real world.

            You might be better off decrying the crime.  Anonymous had options.  The people whose money they stole, didn't.

            "If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich.." - John F. Kennedy: Inaugural Address, January 20, 1961. We are the 99%.

            by IndieGuy on Tue Dec 27, 2011 at 06:26:08 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Jeeze. As I said, it's happened to me. (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              SweetLittleOkie, cotterperson, kyril

              So no, I am not 'making light of'.  I'm pointing out the reality of the limits on monetary damages, not getting into debates over 'psychological damage' from being a victim of credit card fraud.

              And I was not 'making the credit cards companies out' to be anything.  I'm fairly certain the limits on damages are a matter of law, not the credit card companies being 'nice'.  And of course they'll want to recover the money, since it will affect their own bottom line in terms of the rates they pay for insurance.

              •  I've experienced credit card fraud, too... (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                kyril, Praxical

                ...and the only hurt I experienced was the (self-accepted) annoyance of trying to convince the companies from whom goods were ordered to stop the shipments. And having to update my credit card number with the various places that I allow to auto-pay.

                If I had lost my credit card, I'd be liable for just $50. Since I hadn't, my liability was $0. And the credit card companies won't be out for those charges, either -- they'll just reverse the charges. They'll probably have to pay to issue new credit cards, but i doubt that's very expensive per customer.

                That doesn't justify stealing credit card numbers and then making charges on them. I am opposed to that, regardless of the reason. But let's be real about how much hurt this caused.

            •  What damage? (0+ / 0-)

              I don't think that there's a credit card out there that would hold the cardholders liable for this incident.  Not even the assholes like BoA, etc.  The worst that's likely going to happen -- to an impacted individual's perspective -- is that the accounts which were compromised will closed out to new charges and the account holders will receive new cards.

        •  Because it's you know, totally awesome... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          IndieGuy, buddabelly

          ...to steal the credit card numbers of charities that subscribed to Stratfor to figure out if their volunteers might be at risk of being kidnaped or killed in country X, Y or Z.

          But nobody's buying flowers from the flower lady.

          by Rich in PA on Tue Dec 27, 2011 at 06:47:01 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Orly? Bankers (8+ / 0-)

          managed to make off with trillions of dollars that we the people are now expected to accept austerity measures in order to pay it all back for them and I've not seen a one of them in jail.  I've seen them talking about doing God's work though and having dinner with our POTUS. HMMMMMMMM

          ~War is Peace~Freedom is Slavery~Ignorance is Strength~ George Orwell "1984"

          by Kristina40 on Tue Dec 27, 2011 at 08:39:32 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  And they belong in prison. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            coffeetalk

            As I said elsewhere, theft is theft.  Just because one group has gotten away with it doesn't make it okay for another group to engage in it.

            Think of it this way:  Should be bankers be given a pass because Anonymous might get away with stealing from the 99%?  I don't think so, either.

            So, yes - rly.

            "If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich.." - John F. Kennedy: Inaugural Address, January 20, 1961. We are the 99%.

            by IndieGuy on Tue Dec 27, 2011 at 08:52:58 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Theft Is the Modus Operandi (3+ / 0-)

              of Wall St. and everyone who colludes with them- which includes the upper echelons of both major parties.  If you deride Anon for complicity in theft and cheer on your personal favorite partisan Wall St. co-conspirators you are a hypocrite.  Huddling up with GS bigs is far more dangerous criminal territory by multiple orders of magnitude than any hacker mischief.

              If you can get out the pom-poms for partisan lesser of two evilism  you have no moral authority to criticize hackers working at advancing the interests of the 99%.  

              Advisors for President-Elect Barack Obama feared the new administration would face a coup if it prosecuted Bush-era war crimes, according to a new report out this morning.

              by Kurt Sperry on Tue Dec 27, 2011 at 10:55:25 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Regarding this: (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                sviscusi
                If you deride Anon for complicity in theft and cheer on your personal favorite partisan Wall St. co-conspirators you are a hypocrite.

                Review my comment history and post the links where I did as you fantasize.  If you find one, I'll write a diary apologizing to the entire community.  If you don't, you can apologize to the entire community for making shit up, pretending like it's real, and assuming they're all just as foolish as you.

                "If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich.." - John F. Kennedy: Inaugural Address, January 20, 1961. We are the 99%.

                by IndieGuy on Tue Dec 27, 2011 at 11:14:29 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  "If" Introduces a Hypothetical (0+ / 0-)

                  please ignore if it doesn't apply to you.  I don't have either the time or inclination to research peoples' comment histories.  This hypothetical would apply to most partisan Kossacks however.

                  Advisors for President-Elect Barack Obama feared the new administration would face a coup if it prosecuted Bush-era war crimes, according to a new report out this morning.

                  by Kurt Sperry on Tue Dec 27, 2011 at 12:12:44 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

      •  identity theft (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        IndieGuy, coffeetalk

        takes time to fix - do you know any working people burdened with an excess of time? Even if this imaginary person with time on their hands exists, would they like to spend it on the phone with the credit card company? If takes know how - most people are far less tech-savvy than your average Kossack, much less than a hacker. Some of the victims of this thievery are retirees, who are even less likely to know how to deal with this. It is a needless hassle & most people's lives have more than enough of that.

        Also, it takes time to fix. Refunds are not immediate. In this economy, how many people are living right up at their credit limit? And now they have to wait for the corporate bureaucracy to give back what these jerks stole.

        Not the way to get the common person on your side.

    •  No big deal. (8+ / 0-)

      You must find credit card fraud way more frightening than I do.

      Odds are the harm to card holders will be limited to the cost of placing phone calls to have the cards replaced, and the harm to finance firms will be the cost of rolling back the payments (not much higher). The (financial) losers will be the non-profits who thought they got donations, but will have to return the money to the issuing bank (Chase, etc).

      If the payments couldn't be reversed (unlikely in this case), the credit card companies would take the hit and pass it off to their insurance carriers, who have already bundled the risk into financial instruments and sold them on the secondary commodity market. Unless the scale of the fraud was multiple orders of magnitude above what I've seen reported, it's not even enough to change the price of credit card risk.

      Groups: Toolbox and Trolls... to preserve the best & the worst of DailyKos.

      by opendna on Tue Dec 27, 2011 at 05:44:14 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site