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View Diary: Ron Paul? Really? (363 comments)

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  •  Why not support Kucinich or Nader or Gravel then (1+ / 0-)
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    They have just as much chance of becoming President. There is NO reason for any social democratic liberal or progressive in supporting Paul.

    First of all he has no chance of becoming President, or even winning the Republican nomination.

    Second of all, Paul would not be a peace candidate. He would immediately declare war on the middle class, students, immigrants, women, the elderly, disabled, etc.

    And here's the thing, he would have 100% support from a Republican congress and Senate in doing that. So, ask yourself if Ron Paul became President if the first thing on his agenda would be cutting military spending and legalizing weed, or if he'd go after low hanging fruit and murder what remaining safety net is left for the most vulnerable.

    •  No progressives are running (4+ / 0-)

      I wanted Bernie Sanders to run and even started a petition for that, but he refused to run.

      The bottom line for me is that I don't like any of the candidates who are running. I don't agree with Obama on much of anything because he represents the moderate-conservative status quo establishment (very different policies than what he campaigned on in '08), and I don't like any of the Republicans either.

      My point is that Paul is not nearly as bad as the diarist thinks he is. On some key issues, he is much more progressive than Obame. On other issues he is ultra-conservative. We don't have a good candidate in this race. Paul is worth considering because of his positions on war, drugs, and civil liberties. Obama is worth considering because he doesn't want to slash government services (only cut them a little bit, i.e. mild austerity rather than the radical austerity of Republicans). Both of them are crappy options if you ask me.

      But don't be surprised when some progressives choose the Ron Paul option. Some will. And they will do so for rational reasons, as the lesser of two evils (in their opinion). I am undecided as I already expressed.

      Eric Stetson -- Author, Speaker, Visionary.

      by Eric Stetson on Wed Dec 28, 2011 at 03:18:05 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  WTF?????? Ok you are seriously kidding (3+ / 0-)
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        ddn, Cali Scribe, delphine


        My point is that Paul is not nearly as bad as the diarist thinks he is.


        Cutting $ 1 Trillion dollars from the government in one year, gutting the social services safety net, abolishing the Dept. of Education, Wiping out the Park Service, and Housing and Urban Development are all "not that bad"? Are you fucking kidding?

        Making Pot Legal and following some batshit insane isolationist policy are more important than what is listed below?

        Oh and Paul on civil liberties... HE IS AGAINST THEM. What in G-d's name are you talking about. Look at the man's record. He wants to return to State's Rights. You do know we fought a war about that from 1861-1865.

        Anyone choosing Ron Paul is no progressive.

      •  Paul isn't "progressive" on ANY issue (4+ / 0-)

        He's an ideological libertarian. He doesn't want any restrictions in making money money money. That's why he wants to end the drug war. That's why he wants legalized drugs. That's why he opposed the bank bailout (and any stimulus you forgot to add). Money. Unless the definition of progressive changed, Paul does not qualify. He only incidentally ends up supporting similar positions as the left, but it is not because he has any interest in reform.

      •  I hope you're joking about the "visionary" bit (2+ / 0-)
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        volleyboy1, Via Chicago

        That's really funny.  

        I see a website.  I see some talks at churches.

        Vision requires actually having a way to move the whole thing forward.  

        Ron Paul has a goal of setting the US back.  

        Regardless, he would never be able to get anything through without his party.  

        I am an atheist for moral purposes. Seriously.

        by otto on Wed Dec 28, 2011 at 03:45:10 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Look deeper into the projects/orgs I'm involved in (1+ / 0-)
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          if you want to see what visionary ideas I promote. A cursory glance at my website might not be enough.

          However, I don't think you really are interested to know about my vision for society, religion, technology, economics, etc. You just wish to mock me because I don't have a reflexive knee-jerk hatred of Ron Paul and everything he stands for. Sorry, but my views on politicians tend to be quite nuanced.

          Eric Stetson -- Author, Speaker, Visionary.

          by Eric Stetson on Wed Dec 28, 2011 at 03:50:17 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I wish to mock you (1+ / 0-)
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            Yes, you're right about that.  

            Anyone who labels himself as a "visionary" should be mocked.  

            So you're right about the mocking part.  

            But your vision failed you on attempting to figure out why I would mock you.  

            If Barack Obama called himself "transformative!" don't you think that would be ridiculous?  

            I do.  And I'd mock him for it.  

            I am an atheist for moral purposes. Seriously.

            by otto on Wed Dec 28, 2011 at 03:55:35 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Feel free to mock. But things are what they are. (0+ / 0-)

              I happen to be a person of vision. If you read my writings or check out the organizations I have founded you would see that. I don't perceive the word "visionary" as a pompous word.

              Many people are visionaries. Entrepreneurs often are, and especially those who not only create new businesses but also new cultural organizations that create change. Some of my personal friends are also visionaries; in fact I primarily tend to hang out with visionary people. If you perceive the term as pompous, fine. You can perceive language in any way you wish.

              Eric Stetson -- Author, Speaker, Visionary.

              by Eric Stetson on Wed Dec 28, 2011 at 05:03:34 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  This is probably the funniest I've seen here (0+ / 0-)

                "I happen to be a person of vision."

                Thanks for that.  

                Would you agree that if Obama called himself a "transformative" president that he would be making a ridiculous comment?  

                My uncle would frequently tell me how he had very great plans to solve the problems that the world faces.  I am not making a joke by telling you that he was on crack when he would go on those long ranging, self congratulatory spiels.  

                I mean that literally. He smoked crack, and he would talk about how we could solve the world's problems by bringing the Democrats and Republicans together and...

                That's visionary, don't you agree?  

                It's okay, though.  In order to manage in this media environment, you have to make yourself a product that can be sold.  

                As to your second comment, what do you think I would like to have happen as a result of mocking you?  

                My vision is that the end goal was the mocking.  I had no other goals after that.  

                It was a short range vision.

                I am an atheist for moral purposes. Seriously.

                by otto on Wed Dec 28, 2011 at 06:13:47 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Yes, your vision is definitely short range. (0+ / 0-)

                  And to answer your question, no, I don't think that if Obama called himself "transformative" it would be ridiculous or deserving of mockery. He is a transformative president, for a variety of reasons (his race being but one). That's just a statement of fact.

                  I don't consider these kinds of words like "visionary" or "transformative" to be anything other than honest descriptions, if the person is describing a genuine feature of their personality and/or accomplishments.

                  I happen to know people who are even beyond visionary, they are prophetic. Perhaps that's because some of my friends are spiritual people who believe in things like inspiration, prophecy, etc. Your signature indicates that you are a staunch atheist, so presumably all of these phenomena are outside your experience or belief system.

                  So mock away, if a person's views/experiences/nature is incongruent with your own. Keep those short-range spectacles firmly lodged on your nose, and have fun! lol

                  Eric Stetson -- Author, Speaker, Visionary.

                  by Eric Stetson on Wed Dec 28, 2011 at 06:35:15 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Thank you (1+ / 0-)
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                    I will continue to make fun of people who are so self congratulatory about their amazingly unique abilities to see the future that they label themselves with something like you've done here.  

                    Did you notice that you answered the question in just the right way?  

                    You said that he is transformative.  He didn't say it.  

                    That's the difference, and I'm surprised that the advanced synaptic connections you are able to make were not able to uncover that key point.  

                    I'll be sure to look out for your visions.  

                    I am an atheist for moral purposes. Seriously.

                    by otto on Wed Dec 28, 2011 at 06:44:29 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

            •  Btw, for future reference, mocking doesn't work if (0+ / 0-)

              the person you're trying to mock actually is doing the things you're claiming he's only pretending to do. It actually just makes the mocker look ridiculous.

              Eric Stetson -- Author, Speaker, Visionary.

              by Eric Stetson on Wed Dec 28, 2011 at 05:05:53 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

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