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View Diary: The effect of 'Americans Elect' (270 comments)

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  •  Those Libertarians.... (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JeffW, blacksnake, sgary, elmo, askew

    ...are actually Republicans. Nothing to worry about.

    "A Libertarian is just a Republican trying to get laid".

    •  I really wish that were true, but I don't think (5+ / 0-)

      it is. These are folks stuck on the legalize drugs and anti-war topics (the former I generally support, the latter I wholeheartedly suypport).

      Past that, they don't seem to care.

      Neither of those are mainstream GOP beliefs.

      202-224-3121 to Congress in D.C. USE it! You can tell how big a person is by what it takes to discourage them.

      by cany on Sun Jan 01, 2012 at 07:28:09 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  well, it's hard to get too high and mighty (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Scott Wooledge, Judge Moonbox, cany

        against those "stuck" against the war on drugs (aka the war on people of color, the war of the prison-industrial complex, etc.) and against the idiotic, financially crippling murderfests known as "the GOP and the Democratic Party's foreign policy."  

        I wish a few more Democrats were stuck on such things (and stuck on, you know, not signing indefinite detention of citizens into law, assassinating U.S. citizens, etc.).  You'd see a hell of a lot fewer Ron Paul folks if actual change had come to Washington a few years back...

        •  Stuck means they should abandon (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          Libertarianism and support the party that will really end the war on drugs and American imperialism.

          I just keep forgetting the name of that party...

          •  well, unfortunately for the world (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Scott Wooledge, cany

            Or, I suppose one might say that they could support the party that represents more of the interests that are important to them. I imagine that some voters have, among their plurality of interests and hopes for representation, a deal-killer issue (on guns, on reproductive rights, on Israel, on the death penalty, on whatever) but most people are used to living in a complicated world of competing hierarchies of value.

            Guess we'll have to wait for the crosstabs to see where the idiocy of returning to the gold standard intersects with or relates to the obvious necessity of, for example, ending the wars on everything except for goldman sachs.

          •  I'm on your side, Scott. I wish our party was far (0+ / 0-)

            more progressive on just about everything. You and I are not at odds.

            Stuck, in this case, means they only seem to focus on those two issues. They don't get excited over Paul's dismal view on civil rights issues, employment issues, regulatory issues, environmental issues...

            I don't happen to be a single issue person, myself, and I'm guessing you aren't either. I'm all for kicking and screaming about what we don't like but in the end, I could never ever ever vote for someone like Paul.

            202-224-3121 to Congress in D.C. USE it! You can tell how big a person is by what it takes to discourage them.

            by cany on Sun Jan 01, 2012 at 09:17:35 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  I'm with you there. The problem is, (0+ / 0-)

          past these couple of points they don't seem to care that the rest is just awful.

          I'm not trying to make the case we are right on either of these issues (we aren't), but we have other areas that are VERY meaningful, including regulatory bodies they want to outright abnandon such as the EPA.

          It doesn't make our shortsightednhess better, but it also doesn't make their VERY shortsightedness better, either.

          202-224-3121 to Congress in D.C. USE it! You can tell how big a person is by what it takes to discourage them.

          by cany on Sun Jan 01, 2012 at 09:12:59 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  Here's the thing (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        JeffW, cany

        those lefties that are considering Paul for those reasons are not going to vote for Obama in any case.  They will sit it out or vote some other third party anyway if the don't have an outlet.  And on balance Paul still draws more from the GOP side that he does disaffected lefties, especially in certain areas of the country.  He would only make it easier for Obama to win.

        •  I don't know, though generally agree. But I am (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          VERY concerned about the youth vote... they have an overwhelming positive reaction to "libertarian" as a party. That is scary to me. That's what the poll said, anyway.

          202-224-3121 to Congress in D.C. USE it! You can tell how big a person is by what it takes to discourage them.

          by cany on Sun Jan 01, 2012 at 09:19:40 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  Important Libertarian issues (0+ / 0-)

      that do not quite match Republicans (all Libertarians do not support all libertarian issues):
         End the current foreign wars
         More-or-less open borders
         Eliminate NSA etc spying on web groups and the internet
         Launching wars of aggression such as Iraq was a war crime; prosecute those responsible
         Murdering American citizens via Presidential decree is a crime, prosecute those responsible
         Bring more or less all troops home, other than embassy guards
         Eliminate abortion restrictions
         End the war on drugs and pardon all its incarcerees
         Eliminate draft registration
         Eliminate corporate welfare
         Eliminate agrobusiness welfare

         Mind you I started typing at least a minute ago.  Romney may have taken some of these stands and then dropped them in the mean time.

      I expect that many readers differ from these or other libertarian stands, but one might try to be clear about what these stands are.

      We can have change for the better.

      by phillies on Sun Jan 01, 2012 at 07:46:00 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  replace "laid" with "high" (0+ / 0-)

      and I think you've got it.

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