Skip to main content

View Diary: Gas Price Hits Record while U.S. Fuel Exports Hit Record in 2011 & Heating Assistance Slashed (123 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  Puddytat - supply and demand are worldwide (9+ / 0-)

    Why would you think that as it relates to petroleum products that supply and demand would be only in the US? The fact that the US is exporting refined products is a positive, it keeps US refineries operating at higher capacity and the exports help our balance of payments. Why are exports of refined oil products a bad thing, these are worldwide markets.

    "let's talk about that"

    by VClib on Mon Jan 02, 2012 at 04:55:53 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  The use of gas and oil is going down in the (17+ / 0-)

      but worldwide the demands continues to go up. Prices would be even much higher if much of the world would not be in a depression. Sadly oil companies have no interest regarding the welfare of American consumers. If refine gas can be sold for a penny more per gallon outside our country, American consumers can go to hell.

      This diary make a number of good observation relating to the Keystone pipeline from Canada to the cost. This will profit Canada and Big Oil in the US at taxpayers cost.

      The data use for job production is deliberately false. New claimed jobs due to this project is based on false research. Also most all of jobs will be very temporary. Even jobs created in Canada are counted. The steel used and the construction of the pipeline materials will be done overseas--more jobs overseas. The environmental danger has been greatly distorted. The forecast of one spill  every 20 years is a joke. Fourteen spills have already occurred during the first year of operation on the preliminary stages.

      Finally, since this project will increase the cost of fuel, this will be damaging to the economy, and will likely lead to a loss of jobs.

      War is costly. Peace is priceless!

      by frostbite on Mon Jan 02, 2012 at 05:29:12 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  frostbite - I didn't comment on Keystone (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Sky Net, Nulwee, LeoQ

        First, the public, multinational oil companies "Big Oil" collectively own less than 5% of the world's oil and natural gas. The big owners are countries like Saudi Arabia and Venezuela who control the price of crude oil through their cartel OPEC. Even the US based members of Big Oil have most of their oil reserves, and many of their assets and employees, outside the US and are owned by the public, including many shareholders who are not Americans. If they can sell refined products in other markets why should they sell them in the US at below market prices? How could they justify that to their shareholders?

        As noted in the subject box, I made no statements about Keystone in my earlier comment, nor in this one.

        "let's talk about that"

        by VClib on Mon Jan 02, 2012 at 06:12:39 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Did not say that you had commented on Keystone (0+ / 0-)

          put ignoring the pipeline is somewhat looking at our total energy production with blinders.

          I said in my comment that "This diary make a number of good observation relating to the Keystone pipeline from Canada to the cost. This will profit Canada and Big Oil in the US at taxpayers cost."

          War is costly. Peace is priceless!

          by frostbite on Tue Jan 03, 2012 at 06:52:11 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  That gas will find its way to a market, Asian / US (0+ / 0-)

        I agree that the jobs created will be a fraction of those promised.

        But it's still a no-brainer.

        The Keystone Pipeline is necessary, and I expect President Obama to give it the go-ahead in the next few months.

        Learn about Centrist Economics, learn about Robert Rubin's Hamilton Project. http://www1.hamiltonproject.org/es/hamilton/hamilton_hp.htm

        by PatriciaVa on Mon Jan 02, 2012 at 08:29:49 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Ahh the aroma of laissez faire (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      skyounkin, bronte17, Puddytat

      National security and domestic interests should trump the need for stateless, mercenary multinational corporations to make a few extra billion.

      Which side are you on?

      by wiseacre on Mon Jan 02, 2012 at 06:13:00 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  So you agree with the republican Meme of (0+ / 0-)

      drill baby drill?

    •  Less so for Natural Gas (0+ / 0-)

      I agree with the thrust of your statement, but natural gas is an exception because it's so difficult to export, localizing supply/demand dynamics.

      The price of natural gas in the US (about 3 dollars per BTU) is far below that in other countries that have not used technological advances to wring the commodity from rocks.

      Thanks to fracking, the US consumer is spending billions less a year than they would be spending without that technological breakthrough.

      Learn about Centrist Economics, learn about Robert Rubin's Hamilton Project. http://www1.hamiltonproject.org/es/hamilton/hamilton_hp.htm

      by PatriciaVa on Mon Jan 02, 2012 at 08:26:49 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  but we'll see how much the "externalities" (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        A Siegel, frostbite

        wind up costing in public health, won't we?

        "Mitt Romney has more positions than the Kama Sutra." -- me

        by billlaurelMD on Tue Jan 03, 2012 at 07:09:44 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  NG is cheap because of a glut (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        A Siegel

        The fracking boom brought too much gas to market and made the resulting price below cost. Drilling is down 43% from the peak and emphasis has shifted towards fracking for oil. As the over supply drops, $3 NG will creep back up over $8 (per mmbtu not btu).

        It is actually much cheaper to produce NG without fracking, but the easy gas has been produced. Prices rarely passed $4 until 2003 when production fell off a cliff. Higher prices made fracking economic, and the price to drill a well went from $1 million in 2002 to $4 million in 2007.

        This glut helps explain the net export numbers. While you can't easily shift away from gasoline in your car, industrial users can easily shift from fuel oil to natural gas. It is a lot cheaper to burn $3 NG, so capital costs to switch are quickly recovered. Increases in fuel oil exports are a lot higher than increases in gasoline, which makes sense given the drop in industrial demand.

        The biggest increase in exports in the last year has been to Mexico. Mexican production has hit a wall, and is dropping fast. This increased semi-local demand did pop up the crack spread over 2011, but the spread has been dropping back into normal range. Gasoline prices in the US have dropped significantly over the last few months despite oil prices that have increased in the same period.

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site