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View Diary: Gas Price Hits Record while U.S. Fuel Exports Hit Record in 2011 & Heating Assistance Slashed (123 comments)

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  •  No. We already import tar sands oil (22+ / 0-)

    to the midwest and mid continent.

    Keystone XL will take that oil all the way to the Gulf Coast refineries where the refined products can be exported, yielding the Kochs higher profits and giving us potentially higher prices.

    The price issue depends on multiple factors, so it's not a sure thing.

    Click on the links and read those diaries and sources for further information.

    look for my eSci diary series Thursday evening.

    by FishOutofWater on Mon Jan 02, 2012 at 05:21:19 PM PST

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    •  Tar sands (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      Tar sands oil is hardly the only source of crude oil in the world.  If they don't buy it from there they'll buy it from somewhere else.  If the Canadians can't send it to the Gulf Coast for refining then they'll send it somewhere else for refining and we lose the business.

      If the refineries in the midwest weren't exporting the refined product at higher prices than what they could get domestically then they're just idiots.  We don't have a god-given right to oil refined domestically.  If other countries can pay more, they get the products.  How do you think we get everything we need?

      •  The point is they talk as if it all was going (9+ / 0-)

        to stay in America. They lie about this in order to convince people we need this oil, that we will use it, that it will directly help us.

        "extreme concentration of income is incompatible with real democracy.... the truth is that the whole nature of our society is at stake." Paul Krugman

        by Gorette on Mon Jan 02, 2012 at 06:31:24 PM PST

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      •  Sigh ... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        1.  Currently, the oil resulting from Tar Sands production ends up at a lower price in Midwest refineries to the extent it is exported with some going by rail car to refineries elsewhere.  Building the pipeline will foster removing that refined product from a 'captured' domestic market (at discounted prices) into the global market.

        2.  So, re Tar Sands, "they'll send it somewhere else for refining" ... how?  they don't have export paths and, as an Alberta gov't minister has put it, if Keystone XL isn't built they will be 'awash in oil' and they will slow expansion plans because they won't be able to get the oil onto world markets.

        3.  And, sigh, any thought to climate / environmental implications?

        Blogging regularly at Get Energy Smart NOW! for a sustainable energy future.

        by A Siegel on Tue Jan 03, 2012 at 07:58:06 AM PST

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        •  Markets (0+ / 0-)

          So there’s a market inefficiency that keeps oil prices artificially lower in the U.S.  A pipeline might make it more efficient to move oil to export markets, but if the price differential between domestic and foreign refined products is large enough, someone’s going to move it overseas by some other means.  There’s no captured market.

          Regardless, there is no pipeline as of yet.  The point was that exporting was already happening and the supposed cause of higher gas prices in the U.S.  My above comments don’t change in that regard.

    •  The Keystone XL (4+ / 0-)

      project was sold to Canada's National Energy Board as a way to diversify Canada's customer base...meaning that the tar sands oil could be sold to ccustomers outside the US by exporting through the free trade zone Gulf ports. The number given at the time was a price increase in the US of $3.9 billion for Canada oil.

    •  Fish -- (0+ / 0-)

      from the Seniors freezing link....

      Congress is considering a billion-dollar cut from the Low Income Energy Assistance program.

      Is that Congress or Republicans?

      Republicans have the 1% vote locked up.

      by MartyM on Tue Jan 03, 2012 at 03:07:18 AM PST

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