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View Diary: Use MINIPROTESTS to extend the scope and messaging of the Occupy Movement (22 comments)

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  •  This is very good advice. The only suggestion I (0+ / 0-)

    would make is to be careful not to let the Occupy movement be contaminated or polluted with the influence of the Democratic party establishment, which it's as corrupt as the Republicans.

    Yes, we need to participate in the electoral process, and we need to make sure we send good, decent, and ethical public service to elective offices, and more than likely they are going to be Democrats, but in that effort we also need to focus on cleaning house when it comes to the utterly corrupt Democratic party establishment.

    They are as beholden to the corporate money gravy train as the Republicans.  We need to have a strategy that eventually removes the power and influence of the greedy, money-grabbing politicians (regardless of party), in favor of people like Elizabeth Warren, Alan Grayson, and Senator Bernie Sanders.

    •  You place too much emphasis... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Yasuragi, G2geek

      ...on the bullshit meme that there's "no difference" between the parties.

      The main problem with Democrats is the extremely powerful  vast resources brought to bear against them by the Republicans and their Chamber of Commerce clients, to coerce, co opt, and yes, even corrupt them.

      Remove the right, the Republicans and Blue Dogs, to a sufficient degree, and their influence, including corruption, will be very substantially mitigated.

      THEN we can sort out the "progressives", "liberals" and "moderates", I say, democratically, electorally, and move forward, to further suppress the right legislatively and judicially.

      No other option is acceptable, at this time, with the ice caps melting faster and faster.  We don't have another 50 years, to "build a movement".  

      We've already done that, and now the masses are ready, and now it's time to seize the power.

      I see no other viable, feasible prospect for crushing the right in this country, except by massive electoral uprising, the sooner the better, and until we do that, the whole world is screwed.

      The "contamination" that must be avoided by Occupy is the anti-Democratic, electoral boycott and splitting sentiments emanating from "some people" in purported "left" and "progressive" milieus.

      Fuck that noise, ya know what I mean?

      Bringing the "no difference" meme is actually HR'able here, as I understand it...or it should be.

      Democracy is the most fundamental revolutionary principle.

      by Radical def on Thu Jan 05, 2012 at 12:25:19 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Weak. I find these feeble attempts at shutting (0+ / 0-)

        down dissent from party dogma pretty funny, actually.

        I'm not into memes, or narratives.  I'm into understanding the world as it really is, and doing the best I can to describe it.

        Stating the obvious truth that the Democratic party establishment is a cesspool of corruption is just a truism.  There is plenty of publicly-available evidence of it, including public records on corporate donation to Democratic politicians, and of the favors they provide to their pay-masters.

        So yes, we need to participate in the electoral process and send decent and ethical politicians to elective offices across the country (as I pointed out in my initial response).

        And the protest movement needs to keep shinning a light on the blatant corruption of both parties... Actually, high-priced special-interest and corporate fund-raisers for both parties should be targeted for protests, as many in the Occupy movement have been doing.

        Regarding HRs, all you have to do is "click" on it if you think my telling the truth warrants it.  Go for it!

        •  A common oppositionalist ploy... (0+ / 0-)

 insinuate that objections to hyperbole have to be some kind of fascist stalinist "suppression" of "criticism", or freakin' "censorship".  

          That is also a bogus meme, btw.

          You said "as corrupt as", "as beholden to" and "utterly corrupt".

          That's a "no difference" meme, whether you are able or willing to recognize or admit it as such or not, and it sounds pretty absolute, concievably insinuating absolute non-viability on the part of the Democrats...from which the only logical conclusion would seem to be boycott or splitting, whether you actually spit it out, or not, in what seems to be alot of weaseling to avoid getting 86'd.

          The corruption is Not as absolute as you project.

          You pussyfoot around, about your ultimate intentions, trying to be slick, with equivocation and qualifications, but your line is what's weak.

          Trust me, I'm not at all shy about slinging donuts, if you cross the line.

          Just watch it, mmk?

          If you feel you must address that corruption which does, undeniably, exist among the Democrats, especially the Blue Dogs, I would suggest that you at least concentrate considerably more on pointing out where that corruption is coming from, namely the right.

          The Republicans, and their corporate clients are the source of the corruption, which, indeed, they do their damnedest to entice, ensnare and co-opt Democrats with, and beat them over the head with.

          Right wing majorities in the House and Senate hold the administration, the Party, the nation, and the whole world hostage, imposing an onerous, corrupt paradigm, it's true.

          That's the real, whole truth, without ignoring or dismissing the harsh realities.

          You don't attack the freakin' hostages, you attack the real freakin' terrorists.  

          Just saying...

          Democracy is the most fundamental revolutionary principle.

          by Radical def on Thu Jan 05, 2012 at 03:23:48 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Yes, I'm careful with what I write not because (0+ / 1-)
            Recommended by:
            Hidden by:
            Radical def

            of fear of censorship, but because I'm animated only by a desire to be accurate when I make a statement.  I never write anything without having thought about carefully, and without being prepared to back it up.  You'll notice that if you ever attempt to take me on again...

            Notice that I'm referring to the "Democratic party establishment."  That's very precise.  I'm not referring to the "entire Democratic party."

            At the core, we are dealing with a one-party (two-wing) system, and the "establishment" two wings (Democrats and Republicans) of that one-party (Corporatocracy) are equally corrupt.

            I understand that the Republican wing is more odious since it also harbors miscreants of society, including racists, extreme religious fanatics, etc., but when it comes to the influence-peddling and corruption that has so greatly damage this country, both parties (establishments) are guilty.

            So starting from that premise, what we need to do is work to elect decent, and ethical public servants to elective offices across the country in 2012, while continue to put pressure on the corrupt party establishments (both parties).

            Regarding HR's, again, if you feel justified, please go ahead.  Especially, do it if it makes you feel better.

            •  OK, I'll bite... (0+ / 0-)

              The "one-party corporatocracy" bit is close enough to a blatant "no difference" meme for me, especially in context of other remarks cited.

              You do weasel pretty good, though, heh.  

              As in that sterilized part about "decent, ethical public servants", presented so generically, AS IF this is not Really about electing more better Democrats, period, rather than, say, some other party.  

              Too bad you're so freakin' transparent.

              This is not about my "feelings", though, it's about your defiance of TOS.

              Democracy is the most fundamental revolutionary principle.

              by Radical def on Thu Jan 05, 2012 at 04:44:45 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Good for you! Again, I stand by my remarks (0+ / 0-)

                100%.  At least I know nobody could ever accuse me of being a sycophant or an apologist for political corruption.

                Either way, it looks like we both agree on the need to elect better public servants to elective offices.

                We just disagree on weather the political establishments of the Corporatist parties are corrupt or not.

    •  When OWS becomes what you want it to be (0+ / 0-)

      Thats when I'll quit OWS.


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