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View Diary: Antiwar, what is it good for? (268 comments)

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  •  dave, i have to stop you here. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Brit, Onomastic

    because i was sympathetic to your initial comment on Paul. but i'm even more sympathetic to the well reasoned criticism, noting that the "why" matters.

    Paul's isolationism is not the same as social democratic pacifism.

    maybe on some foreign policy level, they share a lot of similarities. but the "why" leads us to two divergent conclusions on the domestic front.

    pacifism is based on humanity, on respect for human universals, on social justice. that's what you're talking about: money that isn't spent on war can be spent on improving life for poor people. on educating people against bigotry. on fighting common human threats like global warming.

    but the natural extension of isolationism -- the kind that Paul advocates -- is the exact opposite. this is a guy who wants to shut down half the federal government, including priorities such as education, the environment, and health care. he's a guy who doesn't even want the government to help people in emergencies: he wants to eviscerate FEMA and wouldn't lift a finger to prevent a holocaust.

    i can agree with you when you say that you're glad that he's at least raising the real issue of the cost of war. but the why matters. what you do with the "savings" matters.

    •  Um, don't make me choose! (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Robobagpiper

      There is a third option to reduce our imperial footprint that's neither pacifist nor isolationist.  

      But nobody's buying flowers from the flower lady.

      by Rich in PA on Mon Jan 09, 2012 at 04:14:30 AM PST

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    •  I don't think the "why" matters (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Robobagpiper, Kurt Sperry, lotlizard

      at least not to me.

      Just talking specifically about war, imperialism, ignoring the constitution and taking of our civil liberties, I could care less why a certain candidate advocates those things, I just care about the result.

      If a candidate is secretly an isolationist, but that isolationism gets us out of the stupid wars, then that is fine with me.

      I would support an isolationists policies over a neocons policies any day of the week (without supporting that candidates policies overall or voting for him/her - God I can't wait until I have to stop writing those caveats).

      Let me put it this way, kind of an absurd example.  Let's say Michelle decided not to sleep with the President until he withdrew from Afghanistan, and he did (which is supposed to happen this July, I think).  If the result is we are out, then I could care less whether the President did it because it is the right thing to do or because he wanted to sleep with his very beautiful wife again.

      You want my ideas on improving education? Whatever Arne Duncan proposes, do the opposite.

      by Indiana Bob on Mon Jan 09, 2012 at 06:18:38 AM PST

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