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View Diary: The Second Amendment Myth (199 comments)

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  •  The problem is, though... (8+ / 0-)

    ...that just because you happen to think the words sound like one thing, that is not what they meant at the time they became the law.

    Neither laws, nor the Constitution, change based on semantic drift.

    If that were the case, then the Constitution would be changed just because a word is re-defined by someone -- anyone -- at any time.

    It simply does not work that way -- and a good thing, too.

    Yes, I often dress as a pirate. Your point?

    by theatre goon on Sat Jan 07, 2012 at 05:14:48 PM PST

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    •  So, what are you saying the words (0+ / 0-)

      "well-regulated" in the 2nd Amendment actually mean?

      Sunday mornings are more beautiful without Meet the Press.

      by deben on Sat Jan 07, 2012 at 05:18:09 PM PST

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      •  That has been explained in some detail... (6+ / 0-)

        ...here by other posters -- that being the case, I see no reason to duplicate their work.

        Yes, I often dress as a pirate. Your point?

        by theatre goon on Sat Jan 07, 2012 at 05:20:03 PM PST

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      •  See above. n/t (5+ / 0-)

        Life is risky, politics is war, government is force and liberty is very expensive.

        by oldpunk on Sat Jan 07, 2012 at 06:47:18 PM PST

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        •  ? (0+ / 0-)

          "Above," huh? Seems to be a hard question I asked, to get only insults and diversions instead of a simple answer. If people don't want to state to me what they think the words "well-regulated" mean in the 2nd Amendment, fine. Don't. I've said what I believe they mean: "limited."

          Sunday mornings are more beautiful without Meet the Press.

          by deben on Sat Jan 07, 2012 at 07:51:32 PM PST

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          •  Here it is again...since you've missed it. (4+ / 0-)

            http://www.dailykos.com/...

            Since my reply was a bit long winded, here's the condensed version:

            Well regulated-

            http://www.constitution.org/...

            It referred to the property of something being in proper working order. Something that was well-regulated was calibrated correctly, functioning as expected.

            -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

            by gerrilea on Sun Jan 08, 2012 at 07:05:23 PM PST

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          •  You have not been insulted.... (5+ / 0-)

            your behavior has been identified.

            You did not get diversions, you got detailed explainations, quotes and definitions of historical context.

            Stop claiming to be a victim.  You were set up.  By yourself.

            •  Didn't claim to be a victim (0+ / 0-)

              Merely identified the poster's tactics. Do you respect insults and diversions?

              My question was what do the words "well-regulated" mean in the 2nd Amendment? Not what they meant in the 1700s. In other words, how are we to understand them in our own terms? Historical references are helpful, but then what do 18th century militias against Creek Indians have to do with today? I ask people to explain in your own words what those two words mean to us. I have said that "well-regulated" means limited.

              Sunday mornings are more beautiful without Meet the Press.

              by deben on Sun Jan 08, 2012 at 09:58:14 PM PST

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              •  There's a game afoot....sadly for all of us (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                joe wobblie, PavePusher, 43north

                your manipulations are exactly how we got into the current mess this country is in.

                Let's review:

                Patriot Act
                Military Commissions Act
                John Warner Defense Act
                Animal Enterprises Act
                The NDAA
                "Enhanced interrogation"
                "Free Speech Zones"

                Each of these things have eviscerated our unalienable rights expanding tyrannical authority to the government we created.  Which has lead to the Police State we now must endure.

                It is your belief that has allowed the malicious and false prosecution of Americans under wire tapping laws for filming the actions of paid public servants.

                It is your belief that has allowed a sitting president to believe he was granted the authority to target and kill any American anywhere he damn well pleases, without indictment or due process.

                It is your belief that has allowed new labels to be created that vilifies political dissent and free speech, ie. terrorist, enemy combatant.

                How about you go down to any of the OWS events that may still be occurring and tell them when they are being pepper sprayed, tazered and/or beaten that those torture techniques are just "pain compliance" and NOT cruel or unusual punishment because everyone today must accept your definitions.  Cruel or unusual punishment is now what the government says it is, because "we don't torture".

                You have yet to address my personal position which I've repeated and will do so one last time:

                The 2nd A grants authority to "regulate" the unalienable right to keep & bear arms but it also makes clear WHEN it can be...DURING MILITIA SERVICE...NOT BEFORE OR AFTER.

                -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

                by gerrilea on Mon Jan 09, 2012 at 12:04:36 AM PST

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                •  I'm to blame for all that? (0+ / 0-)

                  I'm interested in what two words mean. Not in what you want them to mean.

                  For folks interested in freedom, some of you sure demand compliance. It's not permitted to question or to disagree. A person who parses a sentence gets accused of heinous intentions. Not an honest dialog, though interesting to me to see the stubborn mindset. And the ALL CAPS you're using usually indicates to me that a person is yelling to drown out self-doubt, or at least to stifle dissent. This diary obviously long ago migrated from the front page to the 2nd Amendment club, and it has gotten confusing to me to me whom I'm responding to anymore. I got you mixed up with another commenter a few minutes ago. So, I'm exiting and will leave you with the last word.

                  Sunday mornings are more beautiful without Meet the Press.

                  by deben on Mon Jan 09, 2012 at 08:44:38 AM PST

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                  •  Speaking of diversions.... n/t (3+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    43north, gerrilea, theatre goon
                  •  Sadly, yes but you are not alone in the blame (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    theatre goon

                    We all are.  

                    For allowing our government to dictate to us the definition and/or meaning of words.  We allowed them to change white to black, up to down and evil into good.

                    And when you participate in the redefinition of the actual meaning of "well-regulated" after being presented with actual historical evidence...who here is playing a game then???

                    As was stated, more than once by more than one poster, the Constitution does not change by semantic drift but by Article V.  It's that simple.

                    It is that semantic drift and the acceptance by the general population that it is A-Okay, IS the problem.

                    If you don't believe me, how about you listen to or watch Naomi Wolf?

                    -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

                    by gerrilea on Mon Jan 09, 2012 at 11:21:39 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

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