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View Diary: Occupy San Diego:Arrested for Felony Conspiracy (156 comments)

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  •  I wonder what happened to (33+ / 0-)

    congress shall make no law to abridge....ah ..never mind..that consitution stuff is well so democratic and it probably doesn't apply to mayors.   I am not sure the constituion applies to anything anymore.

    We the People have to make a difference and the Change.....Just do it ! Be part of helping us build a veteran community online. United Veterans of America

    by Vetwife on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 07:27:26 AM PST

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    •  The Amendments to the Constitution (23+ / 0-)

      enumerate certain actions that are prohibited to agents of government.  Since the executive (of which the police are a part) is deputized by the people to enforce the laws, the failure to enforce these Constitutional prohibitions falls to the ultimate authority, the people.
      Justice Kennedy tells us that in his disquisition on the "rule of law" of which he is very fond.

      Laws are not self-enforcing.  Democracy, as in government by the people, does not happen automatically.  If we do not want petty potentates ruling on our behalf, like so many acting in loco parentis--i.e. instead of our parents--then we have to become personally, directly involved. Voting is not enough.  There's also

      serving on juries
      holding public office
      petitioning for laws
      providing support
      enforcing the law

      Public officials can be enjoined.  But we need to remember that the judiciary, which enjoins, has no enforcement powers.  They can levy fines, but the executive collects.  If the executive is out of order, then the only option is removal from office.
      It's tedious, as Wisconsin is discovering.  Easier to pay attention before hand and not elect glad handers and individuals with a gift for gab in the first place.
      San Diego was a police state in 1975.  Indeed, it came as a surprise to temporary residents from the East Coast what an authoritarian place California had become. It wasn't that way in 1950, when I first arrived to live there. I suppose it was a reaction to the 1960's riots, which were well-deserved by the oppressive merchant class.

      People to Wall Street: "LET OUR MONEY GO"

      by hannah on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 07:49:12 AM PST

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      •  here's the problem (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        enhydra lutris, hannah, apimomfan2

        If it's up to us to enforce the laws, why should we have a government at all? "To secure these rights governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed." If government will not secure our rights by enforcing the law then what justification do they have for existence? Kennedy's statement is an abdication of responsibility.

        Being ignored is the difference between being a one percenter and an American.--sweeper

        by SouthernLiberalinMD on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 08:20:56 AM PST

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        •  Your comment begs the question of HOW the (11+ / 0-)

          people enforce government limitations. The ultimate cure, if all else fails, is revolution, which the Declaration of Independence demonstrates is legal ONCE ALL OTHER EFFORTS TO CURE THE OVERREACH OF THE GOVERNMENT FAIL. (emphasis mine).

          Hannah lists the actions available to individual citizens (and citizen groups), but if these continue to fail, we are faced with the dilemma of settling for a police state or executing the government and replacing it with a truly representative government.

          Southern Blacks faced this dilemma for a hundred years, and finally resolved to revolt non-violently. Their revolution worked. OWS has been doing much the same thing, staging a non-violent revolt against unjust government actions in the economic arena. Judging from the overreaction of the police, it seems to be pretty effective.

          But a revolution is not for those who question themselves, nor for the weak hearted. They are either short and violent (ie., the Civil War) and usually fail (Egypt not withstanding), or they are long, drawn out non-violent affairs that can take generations.

          Government is, as Jefferson said, a necessary evil that must be caged and controlled by the people. After WWII we let it out of its cage and now we're paying the price. No nation can exist without government (witness Somalia), but freedome will not survive an out of control government.

          Kennedy's statement, therefore, place responsibility squarely where it belongs -- on the people, the public. Like Pogo, we have met the enemy and he is us.

          •  Don't be so quick to except Egypt (0+ / 0-)

            According to DemocracyNow! producer Sharif Abdel Kouddous, things are not going at all well there. The military has seized control, rigging the "elections" so the ensuing Parliament will be powerless. The head of the ruling military council is Mubarek's former chief of security and they are killing and brutalizing protesters (especially women) at a rate far exceeding anything Mubarek ever did. The reports, which are not covered at all in the TradMed, of course, are truly horrific.

            The reason they were the good old days: we were neither good nor old.

            by carolita on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 05:06:31 PM PST

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      •  asdf (3+ / 0-)
        "John Marshall has made his decision, now let him enforce it! ...
        - Andrew Jackson

        That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

        by enhydra lutris on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 09:17:33 AM PST

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    •  Quite right... (5+ / 0-)

      it ONLY applies to congress... therefore the president, political parties, states, and everybody else can make nice little time/place requirements which reduce your freedom of speech to.... uhm.... never, does never work for you?


      One of these days, I'm gonna learn that I'm only really good at convincing people when I'm being a wiseass.

      by detroitmechworks on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 07:49:20 AM PST

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    •  Seems cities like SD won't let the Constitution (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      elwior, Vetwife, Evolutionary, deben

      ...stand in the way of their goal of pretending to have a Stepford-like Community, unsullied by discouraging words.

      As for Congress and the Constitution?  Apparently they view it more as a "quaint document" than as the law of the land, whose defense should be their primary mission.

      •  Right and it seems to me..f (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        kurious, Evolutionary, deben

        the people do not understand WE ARE THE GOVERNMENT.  When republicans say Less government are they saying less us?    The Preamble starts off ,,We the people.  The officials are just elected (some are) by the people ..they are supposed to be representative of the people and for the people..A voice to invoke the Will of the people.  The Supreme court is to interepret the laws and the balance of power is supposed to work but the power is the government and WE ARE THE GOVERNMENT.  What part of this do most Americans not get.  They confuse, the Public with the People.  Stupid..I tell you.

        We the People have to make a difference and the Change.....Just do it ! Be part of helping us build a veteran community online. United Veterans of America

        by Vetwife on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 11:26:18 AM PST

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        •  This response was for Vigil (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          kurious, Evolutionary, deben

          because that comment was spot on.  Representative government .   When people REALLY get that fixed in their heads ...a major change will take place.  There is no one person or one branch of government supposed to be the be all, do all...they work for you and me.  We pay their salaries.  The normal legal salaries.  Not the lobby greenback.  This is actually a plutocracy disquised as a democracy,  

          We the People have to make a difference and the Change.....Just do it ! Be part of helping us build a veteran community online. United Veterans of America

          by Vetwife on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 11:31:42 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

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