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View Diary: NY Times Asks Readers Whether it Should Tell the Truth (189 comments)

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  •  exactly why we are in this stalemate (0+ / 0-)

    okay. you stick with your way. see how far it will get us.

    or just look how far it has gotten us... on the brink of many things: ocean fail, energy fail, democracy fail...

    this is narrow narrow thinking...

    •  Yeah. It isn't a stalemate on my end. (0+ / 0-)

      It is only a stalemate because you don't believe in things that I know are most certainly objective facts. You know the great thing about facts, truth, and reality? They tend to outlast and outlive lies and myths.

      So yeah...there isn't a stalemate over here on Obama's birthplace. The facts of the matter are clear to me and anybody who doesn't believe isn't equal to me. They're insane, delusional, or lying.

      •  good luck... (0+ / 0-)
        It is only a stalemate because you don't believe in things that I know are most certainly objective facts.

        because if your side wins, and that's how you approach things, then you will have to control the other side. yeah. you're going to have to put constraints on them. just like they want to do to you.

        so how will you stop them? the creationists? and pro lifers? and people who think only catholics or protestants should be allowed in office?

        it's gonna take lots of energy and we need all we can get to solve environmental problems, protect our food and water sources, and retool our educational system.

        •  If you believe in the truth, (1+ / 0-)
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          you stand up for the truth and let the chips fall. You don't stop believing in the truth because other people don't.

          I suppose when the birther nonsense came up, we could have simply said to Orly..."'re points are valid. We have to take what you think seriously." That's bullshit. She's a fucking nutcase. She's lying. She's false. We've got proof. It's been proven in court. You lose. End of story.

          My point to you is that you should never make your belief in the truth conditional on other people's belief in lies. Either you believe in the truth or you don't. I believe truth will always win in the end.

          •  i'm not advocating (0+ / 0-)

            to make one's truth conditional.

            i'm advocating wisdom to understand that we don't all hold the same truths.

            you can't win hearts and minds without getting that one very important thing.

            you need to find another track into the mind... some way of not TELLING people what is true, but finding some switch that gets them thinking: does this make sense?

            we need thinking people... critical thinkers.

            you can hang on to that birther thing... it's a good example. it doesn't matter how much you "prove" Obama is a US citizen, they will never believe it. how can you deprogram that kind of thinking?

            that's what you should be asking yourself, not using your energy telling me that they are liars. they aren't lying because they believe what they are saying... although they have been lied to... they just aren't able to let go of whatever it is that allows them to call the sky pink when it is so clearly blue

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