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View Diary: William "Full Of Piss" Kristol (135 comments)

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  •  How many innocents have now been killed (0+ / 0-)

    in going after Bin Laden and al Qaeda using massive military might in Iraq and Afghanistan since 9/11? How many Americans have died or have been permanently maimed? What has been the cost? What will be the legacy?

    Neither the US nor the rest of the world has been made safer by America's ill-conceived and senseless response to 9/11.

    The only training the 9/11 perpetrators got in Afghanistan under Bin Laden was in box cutting. The real training occurred in Pakistan, Germany and the US. Bin Laden was not the mastermind.

    •  If you think Iraq was related to bin Laden (0+ / 0-)

      you are alone in that opinion on Daily Kos.

      In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; but in practice, there always is a difference. - Yogi Berra En théorie, il n'ya aucune différence entre théorie et pratique, mais en pratique, il ya toujours une différence. - Yogi Berra

      by blue aardvark on Sat Jan 14, 2012 at 03:13:57 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  It was Bush that related Bin Laden & Al Qaeda (0+ / 0-)

        to Iraq - not me. 80% of you Americans fell for it and were fired up to go into Iraq to kick some ass for 9/11.

        Most of us Canadians knew that was false well before the invasion of Iraq because our media did not lie to us.

        Even as late as May 2007, Bush was still lying.

        Bush uses bin Laden to defend Iraq war policy

        May 23, 2007

        President Bush used declassified intelligence about Osama bin Laden Wednesday to defend his Iraq war policy.

        During a commencement address at the Coast Guard Academy, the president mentioned declassified intelligence that said bin Laden discussed sending a top lieutenant in 2005 to Iraq to set up a base from which to launch attacks in the United States.

        Where were you when this shit went down?

        Saddam Hussein and al-Qaeda link allegations

        Saddam Hussein and al-Qaeda link allegations were made by U.S. Government officials who claimed that a highly secretive relationship existed between former Iraqi President Saddam Hussein and the radical Islamist militant organization Al-Qaeda from 1992 to 2003, specifically through a series of meetings reportedly involving the Iraqi Intelligence Service (IIS).[1] In the lead up to the Iraq War, U.S. President George W. Bush alleged that Iraqi President Saddam Hussein and militant group al-Qaeda might conspire to launch terrorist attacks on the United States,[2] basing the administration's rationale for war, in part, on this allegation and others.

        •  So Bush is a liar and many Americans were (0+ / 0-)

          fooled. How does that mean we should not have gone into Afghanistan after bin Laden?

          In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; but in practice, there always is a difference. - Yogi Berra En théorie, il n'ya aucune différence entre théorie et pratique, mais en pratique, il ya toujours une différence. - Yogi Berra

          by blue aardvark on Sat Jan 14, 2012 at 05:48:32 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  To attack and bomb an entire country for the (0+ / 0-)

            crimes of a few is illegal under international law. The US response to 9/11 was grotesque and only served to increase hatred for the US around the world. Bin Laden and his cohorts could have been killed or neutralized without going to war with twp countries that had nothing to do with 9/11. In retrospect, it appears that Bin Laden was only the justification for the wars that killed, maimed and displaced millions.

            Don't give me that shiite about the US going into Afghanistan to protect the women and children. That's a load of bull. Conditions there are now much worse than before the US invaded.

            Is America safer now that Bin Laden is dead? Can you now revoke the Patriot Act and FISA? How about dismantling the Orwellian militarized Homeland Security? If anything, these agencies have become even more pervasive since Bin Laden's death. America's response to 9/11 did a thousand times more harm to the American people than Bin Laden did.

            BTW, September Eleventh Families for Peaceful Tomorrows understands this.

            Peaceful Tomorrows Reflects on the 10th Anniversary of Attacks

            From that humility might have grown compassion. Not just for the ones we lost but for others who have experienced, and continue to experience, loss as the result of terrorism, violence and war. Innocent families in Afghanistan and Iraq who have lost loved ones to the military response to 9/11. Members of the military who have died in combat or to suicide as a result of their deployments. Families displaced from their communities as the result of political strife. Muslim-Americans subjected to bias and violence. Americans suffering from job loss and economic dislocation caused by the cost of war and rising military budgets. And all of us, suffering as the result of abandoning the rule of law and the Constitution, which remain the true sources of our security.

            Ultimately, from that compassion might have grown wisdom. Seen beyond the anger, the cries for retribution and endless war, the lesson of 9/11 might be that we live in a connected world. That we have a shared destiny, even with those we fear or hate. That we rise or fall together, the rich, the poor, those with everything to live for and those with nothing left to lose. As Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., said, “Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.” On this 10th anniversary of September 11th, let us honor those we lost by recognizing our kinship with people all over the world whose faces mirror those of our mothers, our fathers and our children. Let us recover the sense of unity we experienced in the days after 9/11. And let us remember and return to the uniquely American values and principles that will guarantee peaceful tomorrows for everyone.

            The video of the marines is symbolic of the US MIC - Pissing on the world to advance it's geo-strategic interests.

            •  By that logic we can't ever fight (0+ / 0-)

              any wars, because you can always say that the rulers are "a few" and that bombing / invading a country are "the crimes of the few".

              In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; but in practice, there always is a difference. - Yogi Berra En théorie, il n'ya aucune différence entre théorie et pratique, mais en pratique, il ya toujours une différence. - Yogi Berra

              by blue aardvark on Sat Jan 14, 2012 at 08:06:50 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Yep. Wars should be a last resort. Unfortunately (0+ / 0-)

                the US responds militarily to every threat, even those just perceived.

                Here's an interesting report written about the US entering into war against Afghanistan with it's use of "Shock and Awe" heavy bombing mainly designed to terrorize the populace. Notice the date.

                U.S. Military Response is Wrong -- And It Won't Work

                by Stephen Zunes
                October 12, 2001

                THE magnitude of the initial U.S. airstrikes in Afghanistan raises legal, moral and practical questions.

                The use of military force for self-defense is legitimate under international law. Military retaliation is not.

                The use of heavy bombers against a country with few hard targets belies the Bush administration's claim that the attacks are not against the people of Afghanistan.
                ...
                Al-Qaida is a decentralized network of underground terrorist cells operating throughout Central Asia, the Middle East and North Africa. It does not have much in the way of tangible targets that can be struck as if the United States were at war with a government. To target Afghanistan seems to be more an act of catharsis than a rational strategy to enhance U.S. security.

                If there is any logic to bin Laden's madness, it is his hope that the United States will overreact militarily, creating an anti-American backlash in the region, which would play right into his hands. This may very well happen.
                ...

                BTW, the US is the only country in the world I know of that has wars on concepts - War on Poverty, War on Drugs, War on Terrorism. The fact that none of them have ever been successful should tell us something.

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