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View Diary: Loonwatch.com and Radical Islam (96 comments)

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  •  Maybe if you read the entire Quran (0+ / 0-)

    It seems to me that your list of atrocities contradicts your very careful parsing of the issues you discuss above it.  Say you made a documentary about the fundamentalist protests of abortion clinics, bent over backwards to say you're not bashing anyone, and then cherry picked the Bible the same way, and followed it with a similar list of fundamentalist Protestant abuses (like, say, the murder of George Tiller).  Same effect.

    All it takes is security in your own civil rights to make you complacent.

    by Dave in Northridge on Sun Jan 15, 2012 at 07:35:49 AM PST

    •  Of course I've read the entire Quran (0+ / 0-)

      The difference between the Bible (a work of fiction that is filled with constant violence as well) and the Koran is that Islam for the most part has not yet come out of its dark ages.  Far too many of its indoctrinated followers take the most violent passages of the Koran literally.

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      by EricAllenBell on Sun Jan 15, 2012 at 07:41:38 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  is that reading in the original language or in (0+ / 0-)

        translation?  Just curious.
        re the Bible as a work of fiction, please don't tell the SBC or any other number of sects that the Bible is a work of fiction. http://en.wikipedia.org/...
        It appears at least 20% of Americans view the Bible as the literal word of God and consider all of the events chronicled to have happened as chronicled and when chronicled
        http://www.sullivan-county.com/...

        As far as the Dark Ages, how many Americans accept ID instead of Evolution?  51% of Americans think humans were specially created by a supernatural God.  Then we have the other denialists such as HIV and vaccine and climate change and so on.  How far removed is America from the Dark Ages currently?

        •  What percentage of Americans stone people? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Utahrd

          As for your question about the translation of these Koranic verses.  I have studied this and interviewed many Islamic clerics.  They will always tell you its taken out of context and actually quite beautiful in Arabic.  And each time (which seems to be nearly daily now) there is an incidence of Islamic terrorism, the clerics will generally rationalize this by either saying that the terrorists were not real Muslims or that American foreign policy made these Muslims blow up say 15 churches in Nigeria on Christmas day.

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          by EricAllenBell on Sun Jan 15, 2012 at 08:17:58 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  exactly like the Christian right disavows (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Dave in Northridge, rja, JDsg

            abortion clinic bombers and murderers of abortion docs, right?  As far as how many Americans stone people, how many Muslims electrocute people (since the electric chair remains in vogue in some states)?  If you wish to play this game of tit for tat, I will be happy to oblige but it seems you are on the short end of this stick, as arguing the US is more humane or civilized or whatever than the Muslim world is a tough slog for anyone.  How many Americans have Muslims killed with drones or with cluster bombs?  See how easy it is to ascribe blame or perhaps, biblically, we should be concerned with beams and motes

            •  It's not an either or proposition (0+ / 0-)

              The American Religious Right is a very serious threat to global security.

              But this does not negate the very real concerns I have outlined regarding radical Islam.

              In fact, I even including a 25 minute movie in my article to show just how serious a threat the American Religious Right is, if you care to watch.

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              by EricAllenBell on Sun Jan 15, 2012 at 08:29:45 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

          •  1857 (0+ / 0-)

            Mountain Meadows Massacre.

            Those 7-year-olds had it coming.

            Not much since then, though.

            •  Islam is still in its dark ages... (0+ / 0-)

              ... even though most of us know American Muslims who are not in the dark ages and are quite pleasant and nonviolent.

              The overall Islamic world, generally speaking, is very much stuck in an ancient time - one characterized by brutality, mistreatment of women, and an obsession with war, superstition and revenge.

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              by EricAllenBell on Sun Jan 15, 2012 at 09:20:28 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Malaysia? (0+ / 0-)

                I met some Malaysians at work.  They seemed nice enough.  Wearing a head scarf during one of the few days of the year when Salt Lake City has nice weather is pretty silly.

                But they had enough money and education to travel overseas.  Maybe I met the George Will of Malaysians as opposed to the backwoods hillbillies.

                My Iranian boss back when I lived in California was not in the dark ages.  He decreed that we could have a 2 hour lunch so we could watch the 1994 World Cup.  You don't get more civilized than that.

        •  America is further along into the age of reason... (0+ / 0-)

          ... than nearly all Islamic nations.  Period.

          We are screwed up in many ways and have much room for improvement, but there really is no comparison.  We don't use religious law in this country to determine how to PUNISH a woman for being raped.  

          To suggest that the West is the same as the Islamic world, as if it were all just relative, is absurdly ignorant in light of the actual facts.

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          by EricAllenBell on Sun Jan 15, 2012 at 10:26:42 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  Essentialist nonsense... (4+ / 0-)
        ...Islam for the most part has not yet come out of its dark ages.

        Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time. (Terry Pratchett)

        by angry marmot on Sun Jan 15, 2012 at 08:43:08 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  The facts support what I'm saying... (0+ / 0-)

          ... if you disagree, please support this with facts.

          Roughly 67% of Muslims cannot read or write.  This probably factors in heavily.  In Pakistan if one cannot afford to feed and educate their children, the Madrasas will do it for you and in the process radicalize them into being hardcore Jihadists.  Because of the poverty in that nation there are tens of millions who have been "educated" in this way.

          It's a shame but the reality is that Jihad, radical fundamentalist and violent Islam is on the rise and the liberal class in America seems to lack the courage to talk about it.

          Meanwhile, the right wingers for the most part speak of this out of bigotry rather than legitimate concern backed by real facts.

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          by EricAllenBell on Sun Jan 15, 2012 at 08:48:52 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Cherry-picked "facts" often do... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            skrekk

            You are perpetuating a deeply problematic Orientalist view of Islam which is entwined with the right-wing bigotry you purport to decry. Your statement that "Islam for the most parthas not yet come out of its dark ages" is absolutely essentialist.

            Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time. (Terry Pratchett)

            by angry marmot on Sun Jan 15, 2012 at 09:47:20 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Actually, it's a fact, Islam is in the dark ages.. (0+ / 0-)

              ... GENERALLY SPEAKING the Islamic world as a whole is still very barbaric.

              This is a fact, not my "right wing" opinion.  I'm not right wing.

              You can just take everything you don't like and call it right wing.

              Read the Koran all the way through.  Spend some time researching for yourself the facts I have presented.  I have no doubt you will find what I have found.  Whether you can accept it or have to rationalize it is up to you.

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              by EricAllenBell on Sun Jan 15, 2012 at 09:55:16 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  "as a whole is still very barbaric"? (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                JDsg

                Give me a break... I've lived and worked throughout the Middle East and North Africa for 20+ years, and what you are claiming as "truth" is a gross and offensive stereotype. You really have no idea what you are taking about...

                Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time. (Terry Pratchett)

                by angry marmot on Sun Jan 15, 2012 at 12:35:17 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Sharia Law (0+ / 0-)

                  Generally speaking, the greater Islamic world, especially the leadership, is still in the dark ages.

                  The Koran instructs men to beat their wives and in many Islamic countries (just like in the US) they do.  It's a religious command though in Islam.

                  Islamic Law commands death or lashings or stoning (depending on which cleric is interpreting it) for adultery - also known as being raped.

                  These are not naive or ignorant stereotypes.  These are verifiable facts.

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                  by EricAllenBell on Sun Jan 15, 2012 at 12:52:27 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

          •  Classic hypocrisy. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            angry marmot

            In this earlier comment (#24) you write about Muslims and some non-Islamic issues (illiteracy, education in Pakistan), but then berate Utahrd (#38) not to "confuse Muslims with Islam."  You, apparently, prefer to do both.

            Muslims and tigers and bears, oh my!

            by JDsg on Mon Jan 16, 2012 at 04:08:32 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Some Muslims are not all Muslims (0+ / 0-)

              Not all Christians are religious right.  Not all Jews support the mistreatment of Palestinians.  Not all Muslims follow Islam the way it is written in the Koran.

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              by EricAllenBell on Mon Jan 16, 2012 at 08:51:58 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Muslims are, by definition... (0+ / 0-)

                ...those who are in a state of Islam.  People who don't follow Islam as it is written in the Qur'an are not in a state of Islam; hence, they are not Muslims.

                Muslims and tigers and bears, oh my!

                by JDsg on Mon Jan 16, 2012 at 07:22:11 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Incorrect (0+ / 0-)

                  A person so deeply indoctrinated and brainwashed as to imagine themselves a Muslim, a Christian, a Jew, an American for that matter is still only a human being.

                  I don't know any Muslims or Christians or Jews or Americans or Democrats or Republicans, or any of this.  I have only met people.

                  Islam is violent as are all of the major organized religions.  When it is taken very literally, as it is by millions of the 1.67 billion so-called "Muslims" around the world, it becomes a major source of destruction.  It strips people of their humanity.

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                  by EricAllenBell on Mon Jan 16, 2012 at 08:15:51 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

    •  What percentage of a holy book... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Dave in Northridge

      can call for the murder of nonbelievers before it is deemed hateful?

      •  It's when its take literally that is a problem (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Utahrd

        It's bad enough the psychic violence that the Bible is causing to the collective consciousness of this world.  

        However, with the Koran, people are actually carrying out these violent passages every day.

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        by EricAllenBell on Sun Jan 15, 2012 at 08:19:26 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Back in the day (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          skrekk, JDsg

          Mormons used to take their religious leaders' exhortations to violence seriously.  (Look up the Mountain Meadows Massacre)

          But these days, BYU students get kicked out of school for getting into fights with University of Utah male cheerleaders.

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