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View Diary: The Sordid Truth about the United States Marine Corps (317 comments)

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  •  Now I can (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    fcvaguy, David Kroning II, Sandino

    Thanks

    Remember history, Clay Claiborne, Director Vietnam: American Holocaust - narrated by Martin Sheen

    by Clay Claiborne on Sun Jan 15, 2012 at 01:57:49 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  Good for you, bucko. (21+ / 0-)

      Maybe you should have researched some actual facts about the branch of the armed services against which you make your blatantly inflated, disingenuous and self-righteous assertions before you posted this laughable, name-dropping, self-glorifying, shallow, propagandistic, demonizing, childish, and badly written screed.

      Diaries like this give this site a bad name. DELETE.

      "The truth will set you free...but first it'll piss you off." - Gloria Steinem

      by Sharoney on Sun Jan 15, 2012 at 02:51:17 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Way over the top. (3+ / 0-)

        Prove it.

        Obviously the diary hits a nerve. It seems pretty well sourced to me.

        •  Oh, jeeze (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Sharoney, IndieGuy

          "Well sourced" and "hits a nerve?" So are all those hatesites about Jews. Meticulously sourced hate.

          Sunday mornings are more beautiful without Meet the Press.

          by deben on Sun Jan 15, 2012 at 06:41:17 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Ridiculous. This has nothing to do with hate (4+ / 0-)

            site against Jews!  What a ridiculous comment. And you got an uprate?

            •  asdf (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Sharoney, deben

              It has to do with "meticulously sourced hate."

              "If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich.." - John F. Kennedy: Inaugural Address, January 20, 1961. We are the 99%.

              by IndieGuy on Mon Jan 16, 2012 at 09:43:27 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  It's hate meticulously sourced (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Sharoney

              Here's something you might endorse as well, given the criteria "well-sourced" and "strikes a nerve":

              Dear Ms. Marcotte:

              No one is born "gay" or "transgender."

              These conditions arise as a result of faulty bonding and identification with the same-sex parent, starting in early life. They indicate deep-seated gender self-alienation (TG's cross-identify with an opposite-sex figure), and are preventable and treatable.

              The writings of well-known figures like Chastity Bono, James Morris, and Richard Raskind confirm this pattern.

              Psychiatrist Richard Fitzgibbons's articles "Gender Identity Disorder in Children" and "The Desire for a Sex Change" are instructive.

              The Left has been lying to the public for decades, with false science and false argument. "Gays" are a manufactured "minority" used for political purposes.

               The National Association for Research & Therapy of Homosexuality has the real information (http://www.narth.com).

              More and more Americans are learning the truth. GayScam, this fraud, will be ended. The laws will be adjusted accordingly.

              --Sharon Kass Washington, D.C.

              http://pandagon.net/...

              Oh, and the target of the letter-writer's meticulously sourced hate?  A 7 year old trying to join the Girl Scouts.

              Sunday mornings are more beautiful without Meet the Press.

              by deben on Mon Jan 16, 2012 at 11:59:20 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

                •  A hateful bunch, needless to say (0+ / 0-)

                  Obsessed with collecting evidence to justify their hate.

                  Haters makes me sick. Including haters of Marines. One of my sons is a Marine. Enlisted while two wars were going on, which took great courage. I know because I talked with him and made it clear that he would see combat and that as his dad, I vote no. The disparaging stereotyping of members of our military is not something any of us needs to submit to.

                  Just as I told you, rserven, that I would not stand for discrimination against transgender folks.

                  Sunday mornings are more beautiful without Meet the Press.

                  by deben on Mon Jan 16, 2012 at 08:17:01 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

        •  Explain. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          erush1345, IndieGuy

          You prove it. You consider the conjecture that passes for "facts" sources?

          That says much more about you than me, Timaeus.

          I'm disappointed in you.

          "The truth will set you free...but first it'll piss you off." - Gloria Steinem

          by Sharoney on Sun Jan 15, 2012 at 06:50:50 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  This diary has a lot of reliable testimony. (3+ / 0-)

            It's not just "conjecture."  You just can't stand hearing this stuff.

            I'm disappointed in YOU.

            •  You can see how many agree with you... (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              VClib, IndieGuy

              oops....there you are all by your lonesome...holding a sack of BS.

              The longer I live, the clearer I perceive how unmatchable a compliment one pays when he says of a man "he has the courage to utter his convictions." Mark Twain

              by Persiflage on Sun Jan 15, 2012 at 07:56:01 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Its not about how many agree with him or (4+ / 0-)

                me.

                One could argue that many Americans are all right with destroying a country and killing hundreds of thousands of it's people, even if that country never attacked us, or maybe only because we wanted something they had.

                It's about changing that mind set. It's about changing the idea that there was anything noble about what we did in Iran, Korea, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Guatemala, El Salvador, Iraq and Afghanistan, or what we are toying again, with doing to people living in Iran.

                Where is the outrage for the millions of victims of the Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines?  

                Remember history, Clay Claiborne, Director Vietnam: American Holocaust - narrated by Martin Sheen

                by Clay Claiborne on Sun Jan 15, 2012 at 08:49:25 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  One can argue anything. (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Vetwife, Sharoney

                  I'm certain many people of many nations really don't care what goes on anywhere as long as they themselves aren't affected.  It's fine for you to take up the cause of protesting the horrors of war and the damage done.  Lot's of people here would jump on your bandwagon.   You then chose to denigrate and slander.
                  See where that got you?

                  You've got a real problem.  You're stupid.  On this site, that's fatal.  

                  The longer I live, the clearer I perceive how unmatchable a compliment one pays when he says of a man "he has the courage to utter his convictions." Mark Twain

                  by Persiflage on Mon Jan 16, 2012 at 06:48:09 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

            •  No, you'd just rather sign on to (6+ / 0-)

              a wholesale condemnation of an entire branch of the armed services, and all its members, from its earliest days on, because it fits your political frame.

              Apparently you just can't see people as human beings--just cogs in your little paradigm, which this diary shares with you. Military BAD; antiwar signwavers GOOD.

              Risible. I would have thought a Kossack was capable of more, shall we say, "nuanced" thinking, especially where living, breathing human beings are involved. Silly me.

              "The truth will set you free...but first it'll piss you off." - Gloria Steinem

              by Sharoney on Sun Jan 15, 2012 at 07:56:13 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Total nonsense. (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                David Kroning II

                You obviously buy into the standard position that one American life is more important than hundreds of thousands of dead brown people.

                Yeah, I'll leave it at that. That's exactly what you're doing.

                It's immoral...and it's also un-American.

                •  Interesting bit of hypocrisy there. (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Sharoney
                  You obviously buy into the standard position that one American life is more important than hundreds of thousands of dead brown people.

                  Juxtapose that against your fauxtrage regarding hatred of Jews, above.

                  As you said:  And you got an uprate?

                  "If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich.." - John F. Kennedy: Inaugural Address, January 20, 1961. We are the 99%.

                  by IndieGuy on Mon Jan 16, 2012 at 09:46:24 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                •  For the record (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Vetwife

                  your entire comment is a lie.

                  "The truth will set you free...but first it'll piss you off." - Gloria Steinem

                  by Sharoney on Mon Jan 16, 2012 at 11:17:06 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

        •  It's total bullshit, backed up by opinions. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Sharoney, Vetwife

          "If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich.." - John F. Kennedy: Inaugural Address, January 20, 1961. We are the 99%.

          by IndieGuy on Mon Jan 16, 2012 at 09:42:31 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  You dishonor every man and woman who (22+ / 0-)

      serves this country. My cousin has left his wife and children for 4 tours in Afghanistan. He has been asked to work (yes, work, this is his career) in horrible conditions and carry out idiotic administrative decisions. He has built water wells so towns have clean water to drink.

      You seem to think every marine picks up a gun and just goes looking for people to kill. That is disgusting.  

      AND WHY ARE WE STILL TALKING ABOUT HEALTH CARE IN 2011? -- Susan from 29

      by voracious on Sun Jan 15, 2012 at 03:00:46 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  He doesn't dishonor them (14+ / 0-)

        He certainly disrespects them, but the main thing he dishonors is his own reputation.

        PROUD to be a Democrat!

        by leevank on Sun Jan 15, 2012 at 03:24:37 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Your cousin has been dishonored by (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Timaeus, Sandino, David Kroning II

        the mission he is a part of in Afghanistan if he was in anyway a part of the US killing machine our country sent to Afghanistan to seek revenge for what 19 Arabs, 15 of them from Saudi Arabia are said to have done to us and have been there for a decade now. Many children have died at the hands of Americans there in that time.

        Oh, and there was that little matter of a pipeline, and other geo-political considerations like containing China, and then there was so much money to be made.

        Our foreign wars of the last half century have been little more that armed robbery writ large and there is no honor in participation in armed robbery or mass murder in the name of profit.

        Remember history, Clay Claiborne, Director Vietnam: American Holocaust - narrated by Martin Sheen

        by Clay Claiborne on Sun Jan 15, 2012 at 09:00:05 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  We have youngsters playing video games and getting (4+ / 0-)

        pretty good at them.  Then we have them graduating high school, finding it difficult to land a paying job and volunteering for one the armed services.

        One of new specialties since 2001 is the armed drone operator and pilot.  It is now possible for a youngster (20 is a youngster to me) to pilot a drone and kill people from 10,000 miles away.  Not much different than playing a game except there are dead people, sometimes whole families  of dead people at the end of one of these exercizes.

        NPR had a show with a journalist who has been following this development.  The CIA which pioneered this drone force has about 30 of them. The Pentagon thru the various branches has about 5,700 plus and about 40,000 or so persons in data collection, technicans, armorers , and pilot/operators.  The services like these weapons because the casualties among the troops are virtually nil barring an accident in fueling or loading live weapons.

            The lack of moral concern and casual acceptance that it is right to attack people, total strangers who are not immediately threatening us, in other words no logical self defense role, and further invading airspace and living space of anybody who is much weaker than we are is a slide into an ethical abyss that mocks our democracy, our republic and our sense of what is right and just.

        Notice these robot warcraft do not fly into China or Russia or over Europe hunting for terrorists. Just the smaller defenseless countries.

        If you think that you and a bunch of other people can just show up on Wall St, camp out and have any effect whatsoever.... well, you will be run off in 20 minutes., you will leave town having wasted your effort 6/18/11.

        by BeeDeeS on Sun Jan 15, 2012 at 09:29:20 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  BDS - all US military drone pilots (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          ER Doc, IndieGuy, Sharoney

          are officers and fully trained airplane pilots so none of them is 20 years old. I have friends who were very senior department of defense officials and I know they are looking at allowing enlisted men and women to become drone pilots, but it has not yet happened. What we found out in Vietnam was that some of the best helicopter pilots were 19-20 and we put in place a helicopter pilot Warrant Officer program to give them that opportunity. You are right that exceptional eye hand coordination is often found in teenagers. However, I think the next crop of drone pilots will be mid level NCOs who have the maturity to be given the controls of an armed drone. Drones have become a very important part of our military, used mostly for surveillance, some times armed, but always keeping our men and women out of harms way. In places like the tribal areas of Pakistan there is no other way to locate the terrorists who are there.

          "let's talk about that"

          by VClib on Sun Jan 15, 2012 at 09:54:54 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Lies. And apologies for war crimes. (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Sandino, David Kroning II

            You're getting close to HOS for me.  Naturally you say nothing about the civilians in CIA who are doing most of this.

            VClib, the big warmonger.

            •  Tim - I would be surprised if the CIA (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              IndieGuy, Sharoney

              is using teenagers. That would be out of character for them, but I don't know so I made no comment about the CIA. I do know what the uniformed services are doing so I provided some information to BDS who thought the drone pilots were teenagers. Maybe BDS has some information and I could learn something as well.

              If someone agrees with President Obama and the Sec of Defense regarding the use of drones that is worth a donut? Really?

              "let's talk about that"

              by VClib on Sun Jan 15, 2012 at 10:32:50 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

          •  There is no reason to deny the 20 year olds, men (0+ / 0-)

            or women to become drone pilots. The reaction times are a big deal, and will be a bigger deal as the drone technology grows to include interceptor  drones to shoot down the other sides' drones! Then younger pilot/operators are better suited for these missions with the challenges coming up.

            The younger quicker, (and in reaction time the women about 5 feet tall are the quickest of the quick) in reaction time and the gamers are at a premium. That is a little bit away, but the relevant part of this is the overwhelming majority of drones, over 99% are being used by the military and their intelligence services and the CIA has less than 1%.

            I believe a permanent war with drones or other stealth killer technology  is breaking our form of government, is making the fascination with earning $$$ billions and corruptly influencing politics to grow the service and the war mentality as the end all and be all which it is today. i Causing us a great harm and ultimately will get us  a massive blowback.  Drones are one aspect of predatory war with a parasitic form of capitalism encouraged that profits from war and uses it to further itself.

            How can it not?   That is embedded in this diary and those being wilfully obtuse, eyes fixed in place,
             fixed straight ahead and brooking no analysis that isn't jingoism and blind obedience don't even want to discuss it.  A la Ms #ID 76.

            If you think that you and a bunch of other people can just show up on Wall St, camp out and have any effect whatsoever.... well, you will be run off in 20 minutes., you will leave town having wasted your effort 6/18/11.

            by BeeDeeS on Mon Jan 16, 2012 at 10:38:35 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  Now if you only realized that the spelling ... (8+ / 0-)

      was the LEAST of the problems with this POS diary!

      PROUD to be a Democrat!

      by leevank on Sun Jan 15, 2012 at 03:05:23 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Clay - this diary is an embarrassment (13+ / 0-)

      The United States Marine Corp is the finest large unit fighting force in the world. This diary disparaging the Marines is disgusting. Please take it down. It is an embarrassment.

      VClib USA 1969-1975

      "let's talk about that"

      by VClib on Sun Jan 15, 2012 at 03:30:16 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  typo - Marine Corps (0+ / 0-)

        "let's talk about that"

        by VClib on Sun Jan 15, 2012 at 03:32:40 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  I'm only repeating what some Marines said. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Timaeus, Sandino, David Kroning II

        It may be stuff you'd rather not hear about, but I'm convinced that both that I cited in this dairy are telling the truth.

        In both cases I provide video testimony to what some US Marines did in two wars. Most importantly, they indicate that this type of conduct was tolerated and even encouraged by the U.S. Marine officers.

        And there is a lot more were that came from. It would be no problem to do a  new diary of this sort of material every day for weeks.

        Remember history, Clay Claiborne, Director Vietnam: American Holocaust - narrated by Martin Sheen

        by Clay Claiborne on Sun Jan 15, 2012 at 09:07:16 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  well this one was a big hit with this community (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Sharoney

          Maybe next time you could get 50 donuts and set a new personal record.

          "let's talk about that"

          by VClib on Sun Jan 15, 2012 at 10:12:46 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Many people in America have said... (0+ / 0-)

            unpopular things.  Yet...they were still right.

            I wonder if there were blogs in the 1850s how many donuts you would have given to an Abolitionist blogger?

            Or, how many donuts would you have given someone who spoke out against the anti-German harassment during WWII...it was quite popular you know and promoted by the US government.

            The way this person here has been treated by this community does not surprise me, but he simply doesn't deserve it.

            You're wrong and I think deep down you know it.

            •  David, here at DKOS we honor veterans (4+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Vetwife, mimi, IndieGuy, Sharoney

              This site was founded by an Army veteran who is proud of his service to our country, and respects our veterans and men and women in uniform. Anyone can be passionately opposed to any war, past or present, and find thousands of people here who will support their view and nearly everyone will respect their opinion, even if they don't agree. And we all know that some Americans in uniform have performed criminal acts and war crimes. However, we will not tolerate blanket statements such as all Marines who served in combat are "serial killers". Here at DKOS we respect all veterans and honor their service. We provide emotional, financial and material support for our fellow Americans who serve us today, particularly those in combat theaters. Some of the most passionate critics of our current conflicts are the most active members of our DKOS community in organizing support for our troops in the field. We honor our men and women who are veterans and those who serve today. That is a core community value here.

              "let's talk about that"

              by VClib on Mon Jan 16, 2012 at 08:00:36 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Yet, I am a veteran... (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                mimi

                and some here fail to honor my right to speak out against what I've seen with my own eyes and experienced with my own mind.

                I don't think what you mean "honor" I do believe you mean "adulate."

                These are two different things.

                •  David - you can write whatever you want (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  IndieGuy, Sharoney

                  What people react negatively to are blanket statements that tarnish all who serve. It was calling all Marines who have served in combat "serial killers" that put the diary over the top. That was unacceptable.

                  "let's talk about that"

                  by VClib on Mon Jan 16, 2012 at 09:20:02 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

              •  Right, but it isn't the core mission to be an (0+ / 0-)

                apologist for the current mission and actual practice of the military, along with the government for the past forty to fifty years.  The idea that discussing the actual practice as opposed to parades, celebrations on military related holidays, benefits and perks is all we do.

                We memorialize the fallen, the recent and the ones we hear about.   We do very little of anything else connected with the war. It is a low interest item here.

                we allow  shocking things to pass or avoid discussing incentives given to encourage more of the same  activity, keeping the analysis confined to peripheral issues....in short not talking as if this were a "forbidden subject" and leave the business of war alone as business as usual.

                When was the last time we had an Afghani or an Iraqi commenting or posting who still lives in the country and has lost family due to actions by the USA in conducting operations where they live?  There are millions of them.   How many have we had telling us about what happened from their perspective?  The irony for me is it is the families of our own active duty people who are most concerned and also see the possible downsides for everyone who comment the most trenchantly.  Others are just not that connected or interested with of course  a few heroic exceptions.

                If you think that you and a bunch of other people can just show up on Wall St, camp out and have any effect whatsoever.... well, you will be run off in 20 minutes., you will leave town having wasted your effort 6/18/11.

                by BeeDeeS on Tue Jan 17, 2012 at 12:30:29 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

            •  Except, this diarist is wrong. (0+ / 0-)

              The unpopularity of this diary has nothing to do with his facts, since he hasn't presented any.  It has to do with his opinions, which just happen to be garbage.

              "If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich.." - John F. Kennedy: Inaugural Address, January 20, 1961. We are the 99%.

              by IndieGuy on Mon Jan 16, 2012 at 09:51:12 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

        •  Clay - I was there, it was a war, shit happens (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Vetwife, Sharoney

          That is no reason to disparage all the brave Marines who have fought in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan. Our Marines are the finest infantry force in the world and deserve the respect of every American. When our nation called, you didn't answer. How dare you demean the brave soldiers and Marines who did. You make me sick.

          VClib USA 1969-1975

          "let's talk about that"

          by VClib on Sun Jan 15, 2012 at 10:19:53 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  When my nation called, I refused. (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            mimi, BeeDeeS, David Kroning II

            So did Muhammad Ali and thousand of others. That was the most honorable position.

            I see no honor in going to Vietnam to kill people because your government said the "damn gooks" needed to be killed, and used those terms in training.

            I see no honor in being part of a force that threw its POWs out of helicopters and laughed.

            Do you really think every warrior army who has ever fought in every war is honorable? Do you think figthing for the Confederacy was honorable even though they were traitors to the nation and fighting to preserve slavery? Do you think they were honorable when they regularly killed black soliders rather than take them prisoner?

            Remember history, Clay Claiborne, Director Vietnam: American Holocaust - narrated by Martin Sheen

            by Clay Claiborne on Mon Jan 16, 2012 at 07:47:50 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  How very special that must make you feel. (0+ / 0-)
              When my nation called, I refused.

              "If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich.." - John F. Kennedy: Inaugural Address, January 20, 1961. We are the 99%.

              by IndieGuy on Mon Jan 16, 2012 at 09:53:47 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

        •  Revisionism is fun! (0+ / 0-)
          I'm only repeating what some Marines said. (3+ / 0-)
          It may be stuff you'd rather not hear about, but I'm convinced that both that I cited in this dairy are telling the truth.

          In both cases I provide video testimony to what some US Marines did in two wars.

          So are you backing off from your blanket calumny of all Marines as "serial killers" using your extra-speshul personally invented definition of that term?

          Weasel words now don't excuse your diary.

          "The truth will set you free...but first it'll piss you off." - Gloria Steinem

          by Sharoney on Mon Jan 16, 2012 at 12:30:20 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  You mis-quote me. (3+ / 0-)

            I never said all Marines are serial killers, I said the Marine Corps trains and creates serial killers.

            Remember history, Clay Claiborne, Director Vietnam: American Holocaust - narrated by Martin Sheen

            by Clay Claiborne on Mon Jan 16, 2012 at 03:22:44 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Parsing is fun, too. (0+ / 0-)

              More weasel words.

              "The truth will set you free...but first it'll piss you off." - Gloria Steinem

              by Sharoney on Mon Jan 16, 2012 at 10:45:25 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Strafe the town and kill the people (0+ / 0-)

                Do you know this song? Not as well known as the Marine Corps hymn, I'll grant you, still I understand its been sung by our soldiers in the field for more than a half century.

                Strafe the town and kill the people
                Drop your napalm in the square,
                Take off early Sunday morning
                Catch them while they're still at pray

                Drop some candy to the orphans,
                And as the kiddies gather 'round.
                Use your twenty-millimeter,
                To mow the little bastards down.

                I've got recordings of US soliders, army or marine, I'd have to check, singing this in Vietnam and decades later in Iraq.

                But I understand it first orginated in the Korea War. Would you know of a source for that? I'd like to get a recording of it being sung there also.

                I know that will be unlikely seeing that recording devices were very rare in the early '50s. Even the Vietnam recording was a lucky find. A solider had access to a reel-to-reel recorder and sent tapes to his son and the son kept them. If you like, I can post it here. The Iraq one can be found in the documentary "Ground Truths" which I'm sure you would also demand be deleted.

                Please stop trying to hide the realities of war, and those organizations responsible for perpetrating them like the United States Marine Corps.

                 

                Remember history, Clay Claiborne, Director Vietnam: American Holocaust - narrated by Martin Sheen

                by Clay Claiborne on Tue Jan 17, 2012 at 10:44:12 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

              •  OK, you have internalized the job of professional (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                genethefiend, Clay Claiborne

                killer as an entirely honorable and acceptable enterprise. You defend it passionately and intensely as the most American or natural thing in the world. It doesn't matter what uniform is covering it up. It is still what it is. You believe a USMC uniform is somehow special because it doesn't do the same things in essence a USN or USAF or Green Army or SAS or Republican Guard or Gurkhas or French Foreign Legion does?  You don't know or choose not to know what they all do.

                You want parse words?  We have after Vietnam a volunteer, professional army because an all conscript army coming out of a democratic tradition is just too difficult to keep disciplined for wet work and unjustifiable homicides. And the powers that be know it and don't want the risks of massive rebellions and uprisings.  They take 1/2 of 1% of the population and they use them any way they, the leadership sees fit.

                We, the actual persons confronting this have choices for now. Some of us in the services as lifers are slated to repeat this theme of doing the dirty work that any conscious ethical person given forewarning and  a clear choice would refuse over and over.

                Parse it any way you want.  It is still glorifying something this country was founded to get away from and oppose as inimical to a free and decent people.

                If you think that you and a bunch of other people can just show up on Wall St, camp out and have any effect whatsoever.... well, you will be run off in 20 minutes., you will leave town having wasted your effort 6/18/11.

                by BeeDeeS on Tue Jan 17, 2012 at 01:06:52 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

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