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View Diary: The Sordid Truth about the United States Marine Corps (317 comments)

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  •  That's not what we're arguing. (2+ / 1-)
    Recommended by:
    VClib, IndieGuy
    Hidden by:
    BeeDeeS

    This asshole diarist, inbetween bragging about his own mad killing skillz, called Marines "serial killers."

    So you endorse that?

    If so, SHAME ON YOU.

    "The truth will set you free...but first it'll piss you off." - Gloria Steinem

    by Sharoney on Sun Jan 15, 2012 at 06:53:23 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  The diarist is an older guy with good (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      BeeDeeS, Sandino, David Kroning II

      credentials. I think he's doing his best to tell what he thinks is the truth. I respect it.

      And of course Marines are killers. That's the whole point.

      Sometimes that is legal.  Sometimes it is not.

      You don't want to face the truth that often it IS NOT.

      •  You know nothing about me (3+ / 0-)

        other than what I said.

        But nice try, Mr. Mind Reader.

        And yes, the military--all of them--are trained to kill. That's what a soldier does.

        Take issue with the policies. Not with the soldiers as a group. that's just cowardly and craven, not to mention inaccurate.

        Unless of course, it's just TOO EASY.

        "The truth will set you free...but first it'll piss you off." - Gloria Steinem

        by Sharoney on Sun Jan 15, 2012 at 07:35:09 PM PST

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        •  Did you actually read all the links and view (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Sandino

          all the videos in the diary? Be true.

          •  I did. Did you read ALL the comments? (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Vetwife, VClib, IndieGuy

            Including the ones from family members of people who served?

            Do you know anything about military culture? Military history? Did you serve? Did anyone in your family?

            Do you have a clue at all? Or are you just pulling comments out of your ass?

            "The truth will set you free...but first it'll piss you off." - Gloria Steinem

            by Sharoney on Sun Jan 15, 2012 at 07:58:24 PM PST

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            •  Are you seriously suggesting I shouldn't (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Timaeus, Sandino, David Kroning II

              point out that the US military killed millions of people in Vietnam, including hundreds of thousands of children because the families of those that served might be offended?

              What do you say to the family of this Vietnamese child? Tough shit? Or are you demanding that the US pay compensation and clean up the remaining Agent Orange in Vietnam.

              What about Fallujah, Iraq, because a whole new crop of deformed babies is growing up there in the wake of the Marine's destruction of that city of three hundred thousand.

              I don't see anything to be proud of. I don't see anything honorable in that service.

              Remember history, Clay Claiborne, Director Vietnam: American Holocaust - narrated by Martin Sheen

              by Clay Claiborne on Sun Jan 15, 2012 at 09:27:24 PM PST

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              •  More straw men. (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                VClib, oldpunk, IndieGuy

                I'm commenting on your DIARY, Einstein, not on war victims. Get a clue.

                "The truth will set you free...but first it'll piss you off." - Gloria Steinem

                by Sharoney on Sun Jan 15, 2012 at 09:44:31 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Wow, you're really cold. (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Sandino, David Kroning II
                •  Now children deformed by Agent Orange are... (0+ / 0-)

                  STRAW MEN?

                  There are some things about America that make me ill...and the willful ignorance of its population is one of them.

                  •  Yes, they are. (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Sharoney

                    And the diarist should be ashamed for using them as props in his little hate-fest.  If you can't see that, the lack is in your own soul.

                    "If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich.." - John F. Kennedy: Inaugural Address, January 20, 1961. We are the 99%.

                    by IndieGuy on Mon Jan 16, 2012 at 09:57:42 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                •  You are glorifying the service as though it is (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Clay Claiborne, David Kroning II

                  apart from and not connected with all those young men and women.  It is an organization that demands service to itself and its code and brooks nothing but obedience.  

                  The POTUS took those young people and forced them to go and do actions which in their entirety, in their specificality meant the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people, civilians, family members of fighters, persons seen on an electronic screen or simply measured as "objectives" and destroyed at a distance. People who caused no harm or were not  a lethal threat to us or the army sent to do them, control them.

                        Where do you get off glorifying something that in too many sad instances right here and now creates crazy, broken people in America we didn't have before, puts a negative Karma that no amount of drugging or counselling can change and has no credibility anywhere including our own country?

                            When one in 4 veterans comes back with combat stress,  with problems of conscience, insecurity, self doubt and self loathing might you think glorifying their
                  "service" is a cynical and self deluding exercise?  No questions or interest in that part? Just blind cheerleading? That is what this attempt to censor and suppress this story is about.  

                  There are service people who want to make a career out of it, want to do the military promotions and activities for years and years.  It is vastly different in peacetime and wartime.  There are some that are just thrill jockeys, love the excitement regardless of the downside. Most people want to have a normal life, raise a family do things that grow, nurture, make the world a bit better.
                  Killing strangers, or even people you might know, but are now in the way is what war is all about. It is not automatic to be cold blooded killers. It takes training and a special effort to get youngsters to pull the trigger or a switch when they might be somewhat aware of consequences.

                              What did the Iraqis or Afghanis do that they deserve years of being hunted down and killed?  The Iraqi war was over in months, why was the sectarian battle allowed to go on for eight years in all its murderous fury?

                  Answer:

                        They opposed Exxon Mobil, Chevron,  Cheney's dreams of building Halliburton into the biggest parasite of the nest of parasites that is the military industrial enterprise in the USA, dripping with collusion and corruption beyond believeability.

                           Glorifying the service as if it is perfectly fine to be working as hired guns for those very companies and ruthless cold blooded vulture capital is WRONG. You can't have it both ways.  Cheer on the  service, and raise a token opposition to some aspect of the effects, impacts of that service. We as a nation, people are suffering from the obsession with building more and more bases , more and more weapons, indulging in more and more predatory wars to have an excuse to tax and spend more to keep the false security juggernaut growing regardless of what it does or turns into.

                           Breast thumping and cheering and being so proud of what  the service does as an abstraction  while mentioning nothing about the hundreds of thousands killed or the money drained from our schools, our country to pay for the orgy of death and destruction as a mindless exercise....yeah, that's what I am REALLY proud of. Not.

                  We spend a million dollars on a soldier, costs us about the same to kill an Iraqi.  That is what we have for our trillion spent, a million dollars spent for each Iraqi killed.  Couldn't we have spent one one hundredth of that and rebuilt Iraq as a showplace in the Middle East, and then spent several hundred billion restoring our own country?  Imagine the difference today.

                  I know, to you that flag and glory and the carnage it is based on is so much better.  Sacrifice and idolize and suffer here and it all makes so much better sense than what we could have had.  And now we are close to doing it all over yet again in Iran except with more casualties and a far higher cost.

                  If you think that you and a bunch of other people can just show up on Wall St, camp out and have any effect whatsoever.... well, you will be run off in 20 minutes., you will leave town having wasted your effort 6/18/11.

                  by BeeDeeS on Mon Jan 16, 2012 at 11:30:54 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I "glorify" nothing. (0+ / 0-)

                    You are glorifying the service as though it is (0+ / 0-)
                    apart from and not connected with all those young men and women.

                    Straw man arguments aren't validated by sheer length.

                    And I call bullshit. You have it exactly backwards. I object to the besmirching of an entire branch of the service, and every one of its members, individually, as "serial killers."

                    That is what this attempt to censor and suppress this story is about.

                    I and others who think (with good reason) that this screed is a hit job have a right to express that opinion. So don't talk to me about censorship.

                    I know, to you that flag and glory and the carnage it is based on is so much better.

                    Prove it. Where have I EVER said that? Who is indulging in character assassination now, bucko?

                    Amazing how many mindreaders are infesting this diary.

                    "The truth will set you free...but first it'll piss you off." - Gloria Steinem

                    by Sharoney on Mon Jan 16, 2012 at 11:46:04 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

      •  My definition of "serial killer" is very simple. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Sandino, David Kroning II

        Anyone who kills more than once, anyone who establishes a pattern of killing, and especially practices killing and develops a mindset that make killing easy, is a serial killer in my book.

        No one gets a pass because of this reason or that.  

        Remember history, Clay Claiborne, Director Vietnam: American Holocaust - narrated by Martin Sheen

        by Clay Claiborne on Sun Jan 15, 2012 at 09:13:03 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  From Wiki (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          IndieGuy, Sharoney
          A serial killer is typically defined as an individual who has murdered three or more people over a period of more than a month, with down time (a "cooling off period") between the murders, and whose motivation for killing is usually based on psychological gratification.

          USlegal.com

          Serial killer is a term describing a type of killer who kills a number of people over a long period of time. They are generally male and motivated by a variety of psychological urges, primarily power. The United States Bureau of Justice Statistics defines a serial killing as: "[involving] the killing of several victims in three or more separate events." They are distinguished from spree killers in that they have rest periods between killings.

          Not so interested in your book.

          Life is risky, politics is war, government is force and liberty is very expensive.

          by oldpunk on Sun Jan 15, 2012 at 10:58:36 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  "Good credentials." (0+ / 0-)
        When my nation called, I refused.

        Yep.  

        "If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich.." - John F. Kennedy: Inaugural Address, January 20, 1961. We are the 99%.

        by IndieGuy on Mon Jan 16, 2012 at 09:55:25 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

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