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View Diary: New polls: Economy still Bush's fault, GOP responsible for gridlock (224 comments)

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  •  the poll disagrees, actually (20+ / 0-)

    at least the CBS/NY Times poll suggests that "playing up" gets 80% support.

    There is strong public support for politicians to start cooperating. At least 80 percent – regardless of party identification – say Republicans and Democrats should compromise some of their positions in order to get things done.
    Devil's in the details ;-P

    PS hope you enjoyed the ACA cartoon piece from MIT in APR this am.

    "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

    by Greg Dworkin on Wed Jan 18, 2012 at 06:35:10 AM PST

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    •  yup (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      opinionated, Imhotepsings

      it may be good for his base, but his base votes for him anyways.

      -You want to change the system, run for office.

      by Deep Texan on Wed Jan 18, 2012 at 07:02:09 AM PST

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    •  Meaningless question (15+ / 0-)

      "Cooperating" means what?  Obama's poll numbers nosedived earlier this year when he was cooperating in trying to reduce the deficit on the backs of ordinary folks.

      Polls about nonspecific compromise and cooperation are about as meaningful as those asking about the popularity of puppies and long walks on the beach.  You got to look at specifics on issues.

      When Free Speech is outlawed, only outlaws will have Free Speech.

      by Dallasdoc on Wed Jan 18, 2012 at 07:23:50 AM PST

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      •  as I said (12+ / 0-)

        devil's in the details, but the strong suggestion is that the appearance of cooperation ebbefits the politican who apears reasonable.

        "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

        by Greg Dworkin on Wed Jan 18, 2012 at 08:09:01 AM PST

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      •  I honestly think that that was what Obama... (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Evolutionary, Ginny in CO, LakeThomas

        ...was waiting for.

        He knew he was dealing with children in the GOP, but he couldn't campaign as such without being called a whiner. So he extended the hand, fully expecting to get it spat in. He then waited for the moment when it was clear that the public's patience with intransigence had reached its breaking point.

        But how to know when that would be the case? I think Obama decided, "I will know it when I start suffering equally". The debt deal was that moment, and he has been running on a "you see the idiots I'm trying to work with?" style campaign ever since.

        •  Andrew Sullivan did a whopping fine (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          jedennis, BusyinCA, jts327

          job of explaining this Monday @ The Daily Beast.How Obama's Long Game Will Outsmart His Critics

          Pretty much what I have hoped and suspected for 2.5 years.  BO is smart. Street smart, backroom smart, wicked smart. He plays like someone who knows Bridge, Chess and Pool really well.

          There's a lot of time between now and Nov. Between OWS, Move to Amend, and the general determination of so many Republicans to implode the GOP; I am getting a little concerned that some of the nuts will go really, truly into meeting criteria for 72 hour psychiatric holds.

          Disclaimer: a week ago Resistance became Futile.

          I went to the Dark Side

          I would rather do nicotine withdrawal a thousand times than Mac withdrawal once.

          Time for more booze.

          "People, even more than things, have to be restored, renewed, revived, reclaimed and redeemed; never throw out anyone. " Audrey Hepburn "A Beautiful Woman"

          by Ginny in CO on Wed Jan 18, 2012 at 05:33:31 PM PST

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          •  Andrew Sullivan's article (0+ / 0-)

            gives both liberals and conservatives points to ponder, but he really aggravated me no end with this:

            Any responsible president’s priority would have been stabilization of the financial system, not the exacting of revenge.
            I would not call forcing the banksters to accept responsibility for the economic devastation they caused "revenge."  Anytime anyone, child or adult, working Joe or Wall Street wizard, is not held accountable for damage they do, it's an invitation to do the same thing - or something worse - again.

            Anyone who has reared a child knows that letting bad behavior go unaddressed is just asking for future trouble.  The least that should have been done when the decision was made to rescue the banks is the top management should have been summarily fired.  In reality, the banks should have been forced into receivership also, cleaned up and resold.  Even that would not have been revenge, but just plain good sense, because now those same banks are bigger and their gaming the system continues, in fact increases.

            "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

            by SueDe on Wed Jan 18, 2012 at 09:02:37 PM PST

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            •  Sullivan didnt mean "revenge" on the banks (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Ginny in CO

              He meant revenge on the GOP.

            •  Yes, but Harry Potter was busy (0+ / 0-)
              The least that should have been done when the decision was made to rescue the banks is the top management should have been summarily fired.  In reality, the banks should have been forced into receivership also, cleaned up and resold.

              If we get the House back, get enough Senate seats to beat filibusters, keep up the ows/99% pressure on Congress and the banksters, change will still be very hard and very slow. Recall the whole story of the Consumer Financial Protection Agency, magnify the obstruction 1000x at least.

              "People, even more than things, have to be restored, renewed, revived, reclaimed and redeemed; never throw out anyone. " Audrey Hepburn "A Beautiful Woman"

              by Ginny in CO on Thu Jan 19, 2012 at 06:26:57 PM PST

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    •  People also say they want to solve world hunger (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Dallasdoc, Native Light

      but they wouldn't give up their paycheck to do it...

      that is an absolute nonsense question....and the root of many of the decisions of the last 3 years.  That poll question is the reason Daley was hired.  That poll question is the reason for the summer debt debacle.

      I don't know what your intent was by posting that..but lets be clear...trying to capture that unicorn as in the face of making reasonable policy decisions has been and will continue to be an absolute disaster politically.

      (Whether it is right or wrong in terms on everyone's policy goals is a different debate)

      "But once John Boehner is sworn in as Speaker, then he’s going to have responsibilities to govern. You can’t just stand on the sidelines and be a bomb thrower." - President Obama, 12-07-2010

      by justmy2 on Wed Jan 18, 2012 at 08:17:11 AM PST

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      •  see crystalboy's response below n/t (0+ / 0-)

        "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

        by Greg Dworkin on Wed Jan 18, 2012 at 09:01:42 AM PST

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        •  from the poll this post is about...not a different (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          NM Ward Chair, Laconic Lib

          one...

          Politically, much of the past year has focused on sparring between the president and the Republican majority in the House of Representatives, with the two sides fiercely opposed to each other on taxes, health care and other issues. Despite congressional Republicans receiving far lower approval ratings than Obama — in this poll, 21 percent give the GOP good marks — the two sides remain evenly matched in many respects.

          Obama and the Republicans in Congress run neck and neck when it comes to whom the public trusts on the economy, taxes and the deficit. Most of those who see few accomplishments during Obama’s three years in office blame the president, not the Republicans in Congress, for the lack of progress.

          Now while this says sparring, I think the majority of the year was used as an attempt to compromie.  And no policy ground has been gained.

          I guess this is the 64,000 question.  

          What is more important, changing people's minds on policy or maintaining a strong approval rating?  And that isn't rhetorical.

          Without approval, you can't change policy even if you change minds because you will be voted out...

          But I personally strongly believe good policy is good politics...but clearly there is a strategic difference and I don't get paid for this stuff.  But I do see all of the people focusing more on politics and compromise continue to lose their jobs....fwiw...

          "But once John Boehner is sworn in as Speaker, then he’s going to have responsibilities to govern. You can’t just stand on the sidelines and be a bomb thrower." - President Obama, 12-07-2010

          by justmy2 on Wed Jan 18, 2012 at 09:19:26 AM PST

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          •  I also believe good policy is good politics (5+ / 0-)

            but there's a time and a place... see DADT.

            "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

            by Greg Dworkin on Wed Jan 18, 2012 at 09:35:56 AM PST

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            •  I see DADT repeal as an example (0+ / 0-)

              of a group unwilling to compromise and keeping their pedal to the metal..in the face of opposition and people telling them they are undermining the agenda of the people on their side...but they didn't take no for an answer, especially with polls on their side.  This resulted in the politicians than wanted to compromise being dragged along.  And even though the other side yelled and screamed, the policy decision is what is remembered, not the other sides whining.

              Now, maybe you were discussing Clinton decision.  I see your point there, but I do think we are in a different place politically now.  I also am not sure that decision actually worked out great.  But the difference there is I think public opinion hadn't moved yet, and that was one way the move the ball forward.  I am much more concerned about how many time Democrats tend to compromise when public opinion is on their side.

              But I don't discount your point if you were referring to original passage.

              "But once John Boehner is sworn in as Speaker, then he’s going to have responsibilities to govern. You can’t just stand on the sidelines and be a bomb thrower." - President Obama, 12-07-2010

              by justmy2 on Wed Jan 18, 2012 at 10:32:28 AM PST

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    •  People want the two sides to work together (15+ / 0-)

      but also understand who the culprits are.

      In the latest New York Times/CBS News poll, 60 percent say Mr. Obama is attempting to work with Congressional Republicans to try to accomplish something; 27 percent say Republicans in Congress are making the same effort to work things out with the president.

      For the Republicans to improve their situation, they will have to come to Obama.

      I like to believe in love as democracy - Salman Rushdie

      by crystalboy on Wed Jan 18, 2012 at 08:27:18 AM PST

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    •  Too many acronyms! (0+ / 0-)

      Which cartoon in Where?

      Can't never did nothin'; Can Do did!

      by susanWAstate on Wed Jan 18, 2012 at 12:31:27 PM PST

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      •  this cartoon in Abbreviated Pundit Round-up (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Evolutionary, BusyinCA

        "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

        by Greg Dworkin on Wed Jan 18, 2012 at 01:00:44 PM PST

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        •  Ah yes, (0+ / 0-)

          Although I didn't see it as a cartoon, so much as an entertaining and informative summary of ObamaCare.

          Can't never did nothin'; Can Do did!

          by susanWAstate on Wed Jan 18, 2012 at 01:29:21 PM PST

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        •  But I'm not happy with junk insurance (0+ / 0-)

          that doesn't cover anything. Although I agree ACA is a necessary first step to real reform.

          Sometime.

          Years from now.

          I might be dead by then.

          And my children too.

          But it will happen.

          It's just a question of when.

          "I don't need a script to tell the truth" Ed Schultz, Feb. 4 2010

          by BusyinCA on Wed Jan 18, 2012 at 07:19:39 PM PST

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