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View Diary: Sen. Harry Reid delays PIPA vote in Senate (81 comments)

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  •  Question: Does the whole idea need to be scrapped (4+ / 0-)

    altogether or can it be fixed? If they were to change it so that no site is shut down unless and until piracy can be proven in court, does that solve the problem for folks? Or is it a matter of needing to change the whole concept of ownership of intellectual property? Looking for thoughtful answers, thanks.

    Ds see human suffering and wonder what they can do to relieve it. Rs see human suffering and wonder how they can profit from it.

    by JTinDC on Fri Jan 20, 2012 at 07:11:31 AM PST

    •  It isn't about getting on the "right" side, (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Kinak, davehouck, skidrow, dinotrac

      Both sides have a legitimate complaint.  The idea that one side should simply give up and accept the other side's argument is incorrect.

      This bill can be rewritten so websites would not be responsible for policing and removing material posted by someone not associated with the site.

      Most issues facing us VS Republicans are indeed an us VS them fight, this is not one of them.  It's crazy to make this one of those fights.  This can be fixed and it should be worked on by both sides.

    •  This particular idea needs to be scrapped (7+ / 0-)

      There already are laws against theft of intellectual property.  These two laws were really just a naked power grab by an industry that has consistently resisted adapting to new technology and paradigms.  

      I keep marveling at how much energy RIAA and MPAA put into this...when they could be spending that money on creating ways to capitalize on the new technology.  They should have adapted years ago and created a new market, but they didn't and they still don't want to.  

      No law will ever stop determined criminals from committing any crime.  Think anything from gun laws to speeding in your car.  What RIAA and MPAA want is the power to take your car away from you because some people break the speed limit.  That's crap.  Enforce the speed limit laws we have.  

      Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. MLK Jr.

      by koosah on Fri Jan 20, 2012 at 07:23:23 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  The film and television industry (7+ / 0-)

      and the cable industry need to innovate and adapt to the modern marketplace.

      If you turn the piracy question around and acknowledge that there is a demand for their products and then work from there to discuss why the pirates have such a huge opportunity, you will find that it cannot all be attributed to the technology of the internet.  There is a segment of piracy that has more to do with the fact that people can't obtain legal copies of the products where they are.  The cable and movie people also have to start to think about how to charge competitive prices; realign their marketing budgets (downward) and maximize the incredible power of the internet to get free exposure.  One suggestion would be that they allow their film promos to be used under copyright, but free of charge.

      I have to agree with most people who have said that the laws that we already have are more than sufficient.  Maybe there would be a tweak or two to earlier legislation, but the reality is that the Movie moguls are trying to avoid adapting to the modern marketplace.

      •  Yes! (5+ / 0-)

        If you look at this from a pure capitalist standpoint, it becomes very, very clear that there is a market not being exploited here.  And that market is finding its resources without the help from normal suppliers because the normal suppliers refuse to supply it the way the new market demands.  

        So much opportunity being wasted...

        Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. MLK Jr.

        by koosah on Fri Jan 20, 2012 at 07:30:36 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  It is not unprecedented for governments (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          koosah, dinotrac

          to send out armadas to protect the merchant ships from piracy :) -- But the difference here is that the film and television industry want to sell what's on their ships - so they have to go out and figure out how to do that.  It is ironic in a way that they can reach more people than ever, but can't seem to see the good in that expansion of their audience potential.

          •  Yep! (5+ / 0-)

            They have been dragged kicking and screaming into each new innovation.

            Currently, though, we are in the midst of more than just a technology upgrade.  We are having a cultural paradigm shift about what "information" means to people and how they have access to it.

            It's really like telling people that they should slow down and take two months to get to Europe.  Or walk to the store instead of using Amazon.  Or quit using their phones to communicate.  What if thirty years ago the communication industry had said  "Nope.  You can't have a phone that you can take anywhere with you.  We have too much invested in laying cables and wire everywhere.  Think of the jobs that will be lost."  

            Sounds really stupid doesn't it?  Because there were boatloads of jobs in making the technology for wireless phones and systems.  

            This is a cultural shift and the RIAA and MPAA are positioning themselves on the wrong side of it willfully.

            Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. MLK Jr.

            by koosah on Fri Jan 20, 2012 at 07:49:52 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

      •  All this sounds nice and logical but the fact of (0+ / 0-)

        the matter is they (especially the music business) have been grappling with this for over a decade and losing.  Many companies have been trying different models.  If you think you can come up with an answer by all means give it a go.  However tons of tech venture capital money have been thrown into alternative forms of music and video creations and distributions.  The distribution models are doing a little better but that's because the rate of return back to the content creators are almost non existent.

        Right man, right job and right time

        by Ianb007 on Fri Jan 20, 2012 at 10:58:02 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Hey iTunes had been hugely successful. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          koosah

          The truth is that if I could go to a CD store, I would, but they don't give me that option anymore.  Listening to the radio is getting to be a waste of time.  The music industry fought for and won their right to shut down restaurants and bars that play music without paying royalty fees so we can't go hear a random song and decide to buy it anymore.  I have a long list of reasons that the music industry is in the shape it is in and that list was started well before the advent of digital internet downloads.

      •  The problem is... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        inclusiveheart

        ...that they're also trying to protect existing (and profitable) business models.

        For example, I'd be interested in purchasing DRM-free downloads of episodes of TV series that are airing either internationally (ie, from the BBC in Britain) or on domestic cable.  However, the cable industry doesn't want to see that happen because it might encourage more folks to "cut the cord" and dump expensive bundled cable/satellite service in favor of just buying the programs that they want to see.

        Obviously, that wouldn't work for the mass of cable subscribers, but if it's enough to cut cable/satellite penetration by just a few percentage points, it might well end up costing the TV business more money that they could make from selling those downloads.

        So, instead, they let the business of those downloads go to the pirates and hope that they can keep from losing too many cable/satellite subscribers to free OTA TV and the Internet.

        Political Compass: -6.75, -3.08

        by TexasTom on Fri Jan 20, 2012 at 11:00:20 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  All good points, but the cable companies (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          koosah

          like mine that provides my internet actually could follow their model of being paid for content delivery in a more expansive way than they currently do; and by all indications the equipment is starting to signal that that is the direction in which we are going.  But the important thing to understand is that a lot of this is more about the companies not being able to figure out a way to work together to sell their content.

          My cable company has a library of PPV movies while another has a different library.  That's stupid when I could go on the net and get any movie that I want.  Trying to figure out what movies my cable company has to offer is unbelievably cumbersome if I use their cable box technology and when I go on the net, their website doesn't actually function properly.  I raise these points only because they could get with the program so to speak, but they don't want to.  That's their own problem.  Not one that the government can solve for them and certainly not one that should be solved at the expense of billions or trillions of dollars in other commercial activities conducted on the internet.

          Anyway, I believe that they all have some work to do internally to fix their issues.  I also think that Congress needs to examine the entire picture before attempting to write another anti-piracy law.

    •  Scrap It -- It Serves No Legitimate Purpose (5+ / 0-)
      If they were to change it so that no site is shut down unless and until piracy can be proven in court

      The law already provides for shutting down criminal operations if and when their criminality is proven in court.

      On the Internet, nobody knows if you're a dog... but everybody knows if you're a jackass.

      by stevemb on Fri Jan 20, 2012 at 07:30:54 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  The MPAA isn't acting in good faith (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Brown Thrasher, cybersaur, koosah

      By which I mean their numbers are bogus on face. The main numbers they quote have been around for decades, never having public attribution, and covered all counterfeit goods worldwide, including all sorts of stuff like fake watches.

      Even if the knockoffs are "worth" hundreds of billions of dollars at normal price, they're expecting us to take it on faith that it's all happening in the US, that it's all happening over the Internet, and that those dollars would actually be spent to buy a product if a free alternative weren't available.

      The only numbers I've seen (from the Cato Institute of all places) suggest we're looking at about $90 million in increased profit for the movie industry if all piracy in the US is stopped.

      And all this is before we even approach the question of how much piracy PIPA/SOPA will actually prevent, the costs it would entail, or the chilling effects it would have on other industries.

      Now, Cato's numbers may be wildly off, but the MPAA isn't even trying to tell us the truth. If they want to have a serious conversation, they need to start with not lying.

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