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View Diary: Heroic Occupiers Close BoA, Hold Off Police for 10 Hours. (136 comments)

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  •  Yeah, exactly. Or that poor woman... (7+ / 0-)

    ...who couldn't get inside the clinic for reproductive health care services because Randall Terry and his buddies had locked themselves up to the doors.  Boy, she must have been.... oh, wait....  never mind.

    •  Clearly there are distinctions to be made wrt (23+ / 0-)

      civil disobedient actions.

      If people were, say, to blockade a hospital and prevent emergency vehicles from entering, or cut off electricity to the hospital, that goes above and beyond.

      If that clinic in question was the only clinic and people absolutely needed to get in that would be pretty serious.

      But here we have a case of a single branch of BofA being blockaded for a single day, inconveniencing some people who could go elsewhere, in order to make a symbolic statement.  That seems pretty clearly within the boundaries of "acceptable" civil disobedience, if you believe in civil disobedience at all.

    •  Civil disobedience is an effective tactic because (12+ / 0-)

      it tends to address the injustice behind a particular law.
         It worked in the case of Rosa Parks and the Civil Rights Movement of the 1960's because Jim Crow laws and racial discrimination in general weere (are) so obviously unjust.
         Randall Terryand his ilk may use the same tactic, and that's fine, but when folks then take a look at what their ideas are, they do not have the same reaction.
         Nice try though.

      "We the People of the United States...." -U.S. Constitution

      by elwior on Sat Jan 21, 2012 at 01:09:08 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I agree with you on that. (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        elwior, jpmassar, erratic, ferg

        The act itself isn't the goal, the goal is to rally public opinion behind a cause by drawing attention to it via the commission of the act.  
        Even at their peak in the '80s, it's hard to say whether Operation Rescue actually prevented any significant number of abortions.  We used to call them "Operation Reschedule" because in most cases. it just meant that the patient would come back another day, or be referred to another clinic.  And even after tens of thousands of arrests, the public never rose up to demand an end to legalized abortion.  
        But I won't apply different standards to a particular tactic depending on whether or not I'm sympathetic to the cause.  If you physically prevent people from patronizing a business, I do think the police have a responsibility to remove you.  Without using excessive force.  And then it's up to the public to decide whether they get behind you or not.

        •  Fair point. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          erratic, Bill W

          "We the People of the United States...." -U.S. Constitution

          by elwior on Sat Jan 21, 2012 at 01:34:27 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Only a fair point when considering the privileged (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            jpmassar, elwior

            those in communities without clinics providing reproductive care who spent their last dime to get to a city with a clinic and would have lost their job if they missed another day (or been suspended if they missed school another day) didn't have the privilege of coming back the next day.

            Those who were hiding from their parents/rapists and where terrified by the horrible things Operation Rescue folks chanted, didn't reschedule.

            That is if you were referring to the OR point.

            I know a small business owner whose business went under during the NYC protests.  I don't know that we will ever get their support for OWS.  So the second point may be valid.  There is certainly a balance to be found somewhere.

            If there are anywhere near as many BoFAs in SF as there are in my town, no one, other than that particular branch's employees, was too inconvenienced by this one day's demonstration.

        •  They have a responsibility (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          JesseCW, Betty Pinson, glorificus, Bill W

          to make sure that people are safe and that they don't trigger a riot, first.

        •   You're arguing that interfering (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          jpmassar, Dvalkure

           with a drug dealer selling crack on the corner of your block is the same thing as interfering with the operation of a homeless shelter.

          Fear is your only God.

          by JesseCW on Sat Jan 21, 2012 at 04:52:25 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  No. Let me teach you something. Selling crack (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            jpmassar

            is ILLEGAL. Cops need to act on that shit.

            "interfering with the operation of a homeless shelter" is so vague as to have no meaning in the context of your comment.

            However, most homeless shelters operate legally.

            If life gives you melons, you may be dyslexic.

            by glorificus on Sat Jan 21, 2012 at 06:28:01 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Many of B of A's activities are also (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              jpmassar

              illegal.

              But I don't see the cops acting.

              You really can't figure out how a reproductive health clinic is analogous to a homeless shelter, and a crack dealer is analogous to a bank?

              You seriously need that explained?

              Fear is your only God.

              by JesseCW on Sat Jan 21, 2012 at 07:19:35 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Please list B of A's illegal activities. I'll be (0+ / 0-)

                happy to pick up the phone and alert the local cops as to the crimes being committed.

                Drawing lines between clinics and homeless shelters is even more tenuous.

                If life gives you melons, you may be dyslexic.

                by glorificus on Sat Jan 21, 2012 at 08:01:40 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Okay. (5+ / 0-)

                  Robosigning.

                  Illegal foreclosures.

                  Knowingly violating verification of income requirements.

                  Just for starters.

                  But all that is just peanuts compared to their role in creating the worst downturn in the world economy since the Great Depression.  How many millions died? Went homeless? Went bankrupt?  Because of their malfeasance.  It may not be a crime, but it should be.

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