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View Diary: Heroic Occupiers Close BoA, Hold Off Police for 10 Hours. (136 comments)

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  •  That's the same justification used by those... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    johnny wurster, jpmassar, erratic

    ...who want to blockade abortion clinic entrances; they characterize legalized abortion as an incomparably more violent and disruptive thing than the blockading of a single clinic.

    In fact, in some way, their actions are more justifiable on this basis, from their point of view—in that blockading one BofA branch for a day won't do anything at all to the foreclosure rate, while their blockading an abortion clinic for a day directly interdicts the practice of abortion.

    I'm not saying that I in any way agree with those who blockade abortion clinics; I believe a woman has a right to choose abortion, and that it is one of the duties of government to protect a woman in that right, including clearing out blockades against abortion clinics. I'm just pointing out the similarities between the clinic blockaders' arguments and yours.

    "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." --Dom Helder Camara, archbishop of Recife

    by JamesGG on Sat Jan 21, 2012 at 12:48:32 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  Um, no (6+ / 0-)

      the public has no access rights to vampire squid kleptocratic global banking.

      Different product and way obvious conflation. FAIL.

      “Fair? Fare is what you pay to ride the bus. That’s the only ‘fair’ I know.” ~ Heylia James, from Weeds - 1st season

      by ozsea1 on Sat Jan 21, 2012 at 01:53:20 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Think about it... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        jpmassar, erratic

        ...from a property-ownership standpoint.

        The bank owns the land on which their bank sits (or is renting it from another company); they obviously have the right to control who is allowed on their property (consistent with federal, state, and local antidiscrimination laws, etc.), and have the right to open their place of business to the public and clear out anyone whom they believe is impeding their business, including calling the police to forcibly eject those whom the bank no longer wants on the premises.

        The whole of the public owns the sidewalks and streets, the purpose of which is to allow access to the places that sit alongside them; thus, the police are rightly empowered to ensure that no group of citizens is allowed to block access to a place of residence or a business whose access point is on public-owned sidewalks or streets.

        Putting a bunch of invectives in front of the word "global banking" doesn't change that.

        "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." --Dom Helder Camara, archbishop of Recife

        by JamesGG on Sat Jan 21, 2012 at 02:07:02 PM PST

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        •  For profit banking, practiced in the US and world (6+ / 0-)

          is a criminal racket.

          Thanks for your concern.

          “Fair? Fare is what you pay to ride the bus. That’s the only ‘fair’ I know.” ~ Heylia James, from Weeds - 1st season

          by ozsea1 on Sat Jan 21, 2012 at 04:03:34 PM PST

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          •  That's your opinion, not the law. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            jpmassar

            The law doesn't call all for-profit banking a criminal racket.

            For-profit banks are permitted by law to exist, operate, and determine who and what is permitted on their own physical business property—just as any other business or individual can make the same determination over their own property.

            Thus, you can't expect the law to treat a for-profit bank as if it were on all levels an inherently criminal racket, nor can you expect the law to treat those who attempt to impede the bank's business as heroes stopping a crime rather than as people who are impeding the legal operation of a business.

            "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." --Dom Helder Camara, archbishop of Recife

            by JamesGG on Sat Jan 21, 2012 at 04:39:41 PM PST

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            •  Baby Jeebus, I know what the law says ! (4+ / 0-)

              Your condescending concern is again noted.

              The so-called rule of law? Great! Sometimes blind to justice and with a keen smell for the bribe. Subject to change, and often without notice.

              “If the law supposes that,” said Mr. Bumble,… “the law is a ass—a idiot. If that’s the eye of the law, the law is a bachelor; and the worst I wish the law is that his eye may be opened by experience—by experience.”

              ~ Oliver Twist, chapter 51, p. 489 (1970).

              “Fair? Fare is what you pay to ride the bus. That’s the only ‘fair’ I know.” ~ Heylia James, from Weeds - 1st season

              by ozsea1 on Sat Jan 21, 2012 at 06:04:45 PM PST

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              •  So let's work on fixing the law... (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                jpmassar

                ...and ensuring that it operates more fairly and more justly.

                That doesn't require jettisoning all for-profit banking—it requires making stronger laws against actual criminal practices and enforcing them fairly, thoroughly, and with due process for all involved.

                "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." --Dom Helder Camara, archbishop of Recife

                by JamesGG on Sat Jan 21, 2012 at 08:03:02 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Clearly you are not paying any attention (4+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  ozsea1, Creosote, JayRaye, Dvalkure

                  to who controls the people who are writing these laws that will allegedly fix these problems.

                  •  Oh, I'm well aware of the depth of the problem. (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    jpmassar

                    I think there really are, quite honestly, very few people in this country who aren't aware that all the politicians are being bought and sold by big money.

                    The problem is that they've seen a hundred solutions and a thousand protests come up and down the line, and each and every one of them has fallen flat on its face and not actually solved anything. Why bother going to a march if it just means you're going to freeze your ass off for a day while nothing else changes.

                    The frustrated people of this country aren't satisfied—and shouldn't be satisfied—with just "making their voices heard." They want change.

                    That's much harder work than just "expressing oneself" or "making one's voice heard"—it involves a sacrifice of ego, it involves sometimes not speaking or dressing or acting like one wants to in order to further the greater goal.

                    And I think that many of the frustrated people in this country—myself included—don't see the Occupy movement as an efficacious means of bringing about that greater goal right now.

                    Which is why I think that any attempt at a solution from the Left needs to be strategic and organized—and the first and primary emphasis, for the time being, has to be to convince all the frustrated people of this country that the action we're proposing can actually make a difference, that it's part of a larger strategic plan to bring about change.

                    "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." --Dom Helder Camara, archbishop of Recife

                    by JamesGG on Sat Jan 21, 2012 at 08:37:25 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

        •  You're assuming that the people you're talking (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          jpmassar, esquimaux, ozsea1, dilutedviking

          to share your belief that Property is a sacred concept.

          That's probably a mistake.

          Fear is your only God.

          by JesseCW on Sat Jan 21, 2012 at 04:53:32 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  No, I'm assuming that they understand... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            jpmassar

            ...that property is a legal concept in American law.

            Would your preferred alternative be that it would be legal for groups of people to blockade and shut off access to any place of business whose practices they found objectionable?

            "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." --Dom Helder Camara, archbishop of Recife

            by JamesGG on Sat Jan 21, 2012 at 04:58:08 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Why is it that when you click "reply" you (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              jpmassar, ozsea1

              so often refrain from including any content relevant to the comment you're theoretically replying to?

              Fear is your only God.

              by JesseCW on Sat Jan 21, 2012 at 05:03:35 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Jesse, you are talking about PROPERTY, James (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                ozsea1, jpmassar

                was talking about property. Same word, seems relevant to me. Just because you may not agree with him does not make you more correct than James.

                If life gives you melons, you may be dyslexic.

                by glorificus on Sat Jan 21, 2012 at 06:31:54 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  I think he's invoking the Big Picture (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  jpmassar

                  of planetary plunder by the vampire squid global banking cartel/crime syndicate.

                  James would sing the siren song "rule of law", lead us in the weeds, then disappear .

                  “Fair? Fare is what you pay to ride the bus. That’s the only ‘fair’ I know.” ~ Heylia James, from Weeds - 1st season

                  by ozsea1 on Sat Jan 21, 2012 at 06:52:06 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  No, I would have a just and fair set of laws. (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    jpmassar

                    I'm curious as to what you find objectionable about that.

                    "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." --Dom Helder Camara, archbishop of Recife

                    by JamesGG on Sat Jan 21, 2012 at 08:05:25 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Global banking buys the laws (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      jpmassar, Dvalkure

                      hell, they can shock-doctrine national economies and install their minions into the highest government offices, e.g. Greece and Italy.

                      I find nothing objectionable about a "just and fair set of laws" as long as they cannot be bought. That's a strawman argument on your part.

                      “Fair? Fare is what you pay to ride the bus. That’s the only ‘fair’ I know.” ~ Heylia James, from Weeds - 1st season

                      by ozsea1 on Sat Jan 21, 2012 at 09:31:49 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

              •  Please outline exactly what about your comment.... (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                jpmassar

                ...I did not address.

                That I did not accept your framing of the discussion or reply in the way you would have preferred does not mean that my comment was not relevant to yours.

                "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." --Dom Helder Camara, archbishop of Recife

                by JamesGG on Sat Jan 21, 2012 at 08:04:12 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

    •  They also go to stockholders meetings and (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jpmassar, erratic, JesseCW, Betty Pinson

      mic  check the lies being told there. There's more than one way ...

      ❧To thine ownself be true

      by Agathena on Sat Jan 21, 2012 at 01:58:32 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I don't disagree with that at all. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        jpmassar, ferg

        I am in favor of disrupting the actions of the banks in whatever nonviolent ways are possible to do so, with the understanding among those who participate in such disruptions that the disruptions themselves are, in most if not all cases, illegal, and are thus acts of civil disobedience.

        "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." --Dom Helder Camara, archbishop of Recife

        by JamesGG on Sat Jan 21, 2012 at 02:09:59 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

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