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View Diary: Heroic Occupiers Close BoA, Hold Off Police for 10 Hours. (136 comments)

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  •  Sigh. (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JesseCW, jpmassar, dilutedviking, Dvalkure

    #Occupy is more a set of tactics, thoughts, ideas, practices, than a big group of Superfriends hanging out at Occupy Fortress. You can join, sort of, but there aren't really members, kinda. But it's not just about a name or a set of pictures or hairstyles or drum circles, really, and most all of #Occupy is about more than just calling oneself an Occupier. So when James O'Keefe shows up at Liberty Square, he's not really an Occupier, IMHO, although I, an Occupier, can't really confirm or deny him Occupier status, nor would wish to.

    But you keep trotting that one out when you've a mind to.

    •  So, you're agreeing with me (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jpmassar

      while arguing with me.

      Keep trotting that one out yourself.

      Democrats want us to share a dream. Republicans want us to fear a nightmare. I'm for dreams.

      by plf515 on Sat Jan 21, 2012 at 04:21:13 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  No, not at all. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        JesseCW, jpmassar, dilutedviking

        Larouchites who don't self-identify as Occupiers can't reasonably be termed Occupiers, unless one's trolling. While #Occupy is amorphous, porous, permeable, rhizomatic, whatever, it doesn't naturally follow that any and all are Occupiers, even, perhaps, Larouchites looking to back in #Occupy's media glow. And I'd even wager that a Larouchite posing as an Occupier with the intention of discrediting Occupy or causing trouble, then they're not "really" with Occupy: while debating the possibility of belonging or not-belonging to something like OWS is indeed paradoxical, certainly it's a bit of a stretch to suggest folks faking interest and sympathy with Occupy are themselves Occupiers.

        Do try to keep up.

        •  But suppose a LaRouchite or a Paulite (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          jpmassar

          or whatever does self-identify as an occupier?

          How does one become "really" with Occupy?

          If your intention is discrediting Occupy then, I agree, you are not an Occupier (pretty much true by definition). But what counts as "discrediting" a movement that is so amorphous?

          I don't know the LaRouchites that well, but the Paulites do share some values with some Occupiers. Are they Occupiers?

          Democrats want us to share a dream. Republicans want us to fear a nightmare. I'm for dreams.

          by plf515 on Sat Jan 21, 2012 at 04:33:37 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Some Paulites are Occupiers. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            jpmassar

            And almost all of them are part of the 99% that Occupiers are fighting to empower.

            Fear is your only God.

            by JesseCW on Sat Jan 21, 2012 at 05:00:42 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Which is weird because (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              jpmassar, glorificus

              Paul would vastly increase corporate power by eliminating regulations.

              Democrats want us to share a dream. Republicans want us to fear a nightmare. I'm for dreams.

              by plf515 on Sat Jan 21, 2012 at 05:10:25 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  You should try to convince them of that. (5+ / 0-)

                They're your fellow citizens.  Beyond that, they're your brothers and sisters.

                You exclude them, you lose.  You engage them, you and they just might win.

                Fear is your only God.

                by JesseCW on Sat Jan 21, 2012 at 06:05:15 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  And also some of us work with Paulites, (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  jpmassar, JesseCW

                  and we must engage with them in work place organizing. They are our fellow workers and we cannot exclude them. Life in the real working world is not as pure as many on the political blogs and web sites would like it to be. Occupy is out there in the real world working with the whole 99% in all of its impurity. And it sometimes it gets messy.

                  If there's a reason for the rich to rule, please Lord, tell us why. -Battle of Jericol, Coal Mining Woman

                  by JayRaye on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 06:11:51 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

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