Skip to main content

View Diary: Chris Dodd threatens politicans who aren't corrupt enough to stay bought. (193 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  What really costs American jobs... (24+ / 0-)
    Chris Dodd is lying about piracy costing us jobs. Hollywood’s refusal to adapt to changing times is what’s costing the studios money. That’s it. That's their problem, and they shouldn't be able to destroy the free and open internet in an effort to solve it.

    First... you'd never know studios are losing money from their financial reports.

    We've been barraged with an ad campaign claiming that the piracy cost American jobs... but anyone in the movie industry knows that what is costing American jobs is the studios sending the jobs off shore!

    The Biggest Pirates are... Foreign Governments!

    This should be dealt with through treaties and trade agreements with foreign nations. This would address the largest abusers of intellectual property rights violators… foreign governments.

    The prime violator is China where they rank 2nd in computer hardware sales but 8th in software sales. When you sell computer equipment you must sell it with an operating system and yet those two facts tell the tale. Witness also Microsoft’s law suit against two of China’s largest computer retailers Gome store and Buynow filed in January of 2012.

    China has anti-piracy laws but does not enforce them whether it is DVD's, music, or software. They also have a thriving business in counterfeit computer chips, many of which have been turning up in US DoD contractors equipment sold to the US military, despite efforts by the DoD to eliminate this.

    Those counterfeit chips represent not only violations of intellectual properties, but a threat to national security. Many of them do not meet military spec and have been found in guidance systems of aircraft, missile systems, and other weapons systems.

    It would make far more sense to force host nations to come into verifiable compliance with international law through aggressive negotiations and punitive measures than internet censorship.

    Hold the nations who host such pirate operations accountable for what happens in their borders!

    •  And why is that, pray tell? (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Dave925, Jasonhouse, TexasTom, lotlizard
      When you sell computer equipment you must sell it with an operating system and yet those two facts tell the tale. Witness also Microsoft's law suit against two of China's largest computer retailers Gome store and Buynow filed in January of 2012.

      Poor, POOR Microsoft!  The Chinese are bweaking the law made to pwotect my profits!

      Why exactly is it that when you sell "computer equipment" you must sell it with an operating system? Are the Chinese obliged to follow American law? And what does ranking 8th in software sales have to do with anything? If every computer sold in and by China did come with a valid Windows license, that wouldn't increase Chinese "software sales" by a single dollar, since the money goes to the company that makes the software, isn't it?

      I certainly agree that internet censorship is not the answer. But neither is buying wholesale into Microsoft's and the media conglomerates' claims.

      Silvio Levy

      •  Just try (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Flint, Nailbanger

        to get an average computer user to download and install a free Linux distro, or anything else for that matter.

        Hahahahhahahahahaha.

        That's why they come with OS's.

        "Our problems stem from our acceptance of this filthy, rotten system." - Dorothy Day

        by Dave925 on Sat Jan 21, 2012 at 09:14:26 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Showing your ignorance... (3+ / 0-)
        Why exactly is it that when you sell "computer equipment" you must sell it with an operating system?

        During my 25 years working in engineering companies in Silicon Valley.... I never saw a single system sold without an operating system.

        The customers were given a choice of flavors of OS... but they were always sold with one.

        Are the Chinese obliged to follow American law?

        Ever hear of the WIPO or the WTO?... Guess not!

        Intellectual property rights (IPRs) have been acknowledged and protected in the People's Republic of China since 1979. The People's Republic of China has acceded to the major international conventions on protection of IPRs. Domestically, protection of intellectual property law has also been established by government legislation, administrative regulations, and decrees in the areas of trademark, copyright and patent. This has led to the creation of a comprehensive legal framework to protect both local and foreign intellectual property. Despite this, copyright violations are common in the PRC,[1] and intellectual property violations are committed by prominent members of the automotive and electronics industries.

        In 1980, the PRC became a member of the World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO).

        The PRC acceded to the Paris Convention for the Protection of Industrial Property on 14 November 1984 and became an official member on 19 March 1985. The PRC also acceded to the Madrid Agreement for the International Registration of Trademarks in June 1989.

        In January 1992, the PRC entered into a Memorandum of Understanding with the United States government to provide copyright protection for all American "works" and for other foreign works. Several bilateral negotiations have been conducted between the two governments. At some points, trade sanctions were threatened by the two governments over IPRs issues. At the conclusion of negotiations in 1995, the Sino-US Agreement on Intellectual Property Rights was signed. In June 1996, the two governments entered into another agreement protecting American intellectual property in the PRC.


        http://en.wikipedia.org/...
        And what does ranking 8th in software sales have to do with anything? If every computer sold in and by China did come with a valid Windows license, that wouldn't increase Chinese "software sales" by a single dollar, since the money goes to the company that makes the software, isn't it?

        It increases the profit margin on their hardware because they don't have to include the cost of the software in their roll-up costs.

    •  Bwah? (5+ / 0-)

      Not that I disagree with the main thrust of your argument, but this is absolutely false:

      When you sell computer equipment you must sell it with an operating system

      No, you don't.

      A computer requires an operating system in order to run software. But not all computer equipment--indeed, not even complete systems--must be sold with an operating system. The only computer I've ever bought with an operating system was my laptop.

      You do not need to buy an operating system with your computer if:

      - You are replacing your existing computer and already own an OS you plan to install on the new one.
      - You are planning on running an open-source OS.
      - You are buying computer parts or systems in order to resell them or build them for someone else.

      Among many other possible reasons.

      Foreign software piracy is indeed a problem and China is definitely one of the worst offenders, but making an assertion like this undermines your argument in the eyes of anyone who understands the points above.

      Sin lies only in hurting others unnecessarily. All other "sins" are invented nonsense.

      by Catsy on Sat Jan 21, 2012 at 07:45:49 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  For awhile (5+ / 0-)

        Dell was selling systems with Linux installed. That didn't work out so well.

        Most people are not capable of doing any of the things you describe. That's just how folks are. I pity the technologically challenged but that's got to be 90+% of the population of any given developed country. Most folks are happy sending email, playing with their digital photos and going to their favorite sites on the 'net. That's it.

        You're right, computers don't have to come with OS's but if you want to sell one, it damn well better.

        "Our problems stem from our acceptance of this filthy, rotten system." - Dorothy Day

        by Dave925 on Sat Jan 21, 2012 at 09:19:22 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Oh Please... (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Pescadero Bill, Denver11, Nailbanger

        Some people buy cars without engines too because they want to put their custom built engines in them... but the vast majority of the billions of cars sold in the world every year come with one! LOL!

        If you care to look at the report below you'll find that they counterfeit everything from consumer products like DVDs, mobile phones, wind turbines, solar panels, auto parts, computer chips...

        My remarks on operating system software was only one example.

        U.S. International Trade Commission
        USITC Publication 4226 May 2011

        China: Effects of Intellectual Property Infringement and
        Indigenous Innovation Policies on the U.S. Economy
        Investigation No. 332-519

        Excerpt:

        Economic losses

        The Commission estimates that firms in the U.S. IP-intensive economy that conducted business
        in China in 2009 reported losses of approximately $48.2 billion in sales, royalties, or license fees due
        to IPR infringement in China
        (table ES.1). This estimate falls within a broad $14.2 billion to $90.5 billion range; the breadth of this range is explained by the fact that many firms were unable to calculate such losses. Of the $48.2 billion in total reported losses in 2009, approximately $36.6 billion (75.9 percent) was attributable to lost sales, while the remaining $11.6 billion was attributable to a combination of lost royalty and license payments as well as other unspecified losses.


        http://www.usitc.gov/...
        Fake chips from China threaten U.S. military systems

        To withstand the rigors of battle, the Defense Department requires the chips it uses to have special features, such as the ability to operate at below freezing temperatures in high-flying planes; because it pays extra for such chips, experts say, the Defense Department has become a prime target for counterfeiters, most of them Chinese companies; from November 2007 through May 2010, U.S. Customs officials said they seized 5.6 million bogus chips -- yet many more are finding their way into the United States and even the military

        A growing deluge of millions of counterfeit chips is posing peril to the U.S. military and the general public — and perhaps nothing illustrates it better than a scheme federal prosecutors recently revealed that stretched from Southern California to Silicon Valley.

        Mustafa Aljaff and Neil Felahy, a Newport Beach pair indicted in October, have admitted importing from China more than 13,000 bogus chips altered to resemble those from legitimate companies, including local firms Intel, Atmel, Altera, and National Semiconductor. Among those buying the chips was the U.S. Navy.

        More...

        http://www.goldfizz.com/...

        China Counterfeit Parts in U.S. Military Aircraft

        Dozens of suspected counterfeit parts have been installed on U.S. defense equipment from Raytheon Co. (RTN), L-3 Communications Holdings Inc. (LLL) and Boeing Co. (BA), including aircraft deployed to Afghanistan.

        The Senate Armed Services Committee found counterfeit parts -- usually from China -- on at least seven aircraft, including the Lockheed Martin Corp. (LMT) C-130J transport plane, Boeing P-8A Poseidon maritime patrol and L-3 27J Spartan transport.

        “Suspect electronic parts from China were installed on military systems and subsystems that were manufactured by Raytheon Co., L-3 Communications and Boeing,” said a memo from the committee’s staff, released yesterday before a hearing today.

        More...

        http://www.bloomberg.com/...

        So back to my argument... if you want to stop piracy and intellectual property rights violations... why try to censor the internet when foreign governments who allow these operations to run within their borders turn a blind eye on them are the real culprits?

        Not a day goes by that I don't read about one sector of the economy or another suffering losses of revenue and jobs because of counterfeit products coming out of China.

        The real question is... the government makes a big deal out of pirated movie sales but that is a drop in the bucket compared to the full scope of the problem when you read their own reports!

        It lends credence to those who assert that it is a pretext to censor the internet and in the era of wikileaks they are probably right!

        •  Typo... (0+ / 0-)

          "billions of cars" should read "billions of dollars worth of cars"

        •  China is the big fat panda in the room no one (4+ / 0-)

          seems to want to talk about in the media. Can't upset China, they hold our debt. Or to put it another way, they're holding our 'nads' in one hand while they feed us the opium of cheap goods with the other.

          I can go on to describe how I think the abusive counterfeiting fits in to that mix, but I'll leave that up to the reader's imagination.

          But, no, I don't think censoring the internet is the solution or even part of it.

          •  Yup! (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Dave925

            Truth in what you say about the "big fat panda" in the room but when the problem is so wide spread there... and so well documented by their own studies... congress's actions/inactions leave them open to suspicion.

            Corporate lobbyist for those manufacturer's bribe our congressional reps with big donations to insure their unrestricted ability to off-shore jobs and then howl like stuck pigs over IPR violations by the same country.

            Mind you... China is not the only offender, but it is the largest nation where these operations are going on. They are moving towards compliance of the treaties they signed but as usual... in small token steps that hardly address the problem.

        •  which leads to a much larger question (4+ / 0-)

          Why the hell are we buying mil spec anything from anywhere other than the USA?

          That would solve that problem in a heartbeat - any electronic or critical device used in any military use, no matter how small, must be manufactured in the USA.

          Period.

          That would reinvigorate our manufacturing base in a year or so, and bring back a boatload of decent jobs.

          •  Bingo! The multi-billion dollar question! (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Dave925
            Why the hell are we buying mil spec anything from anywhere other than the USA?

            It used to be that way until in 2006 then Senator McCain got the "buy American" restriction from DoD contractors removed.

            That would solve that problem in a heartbeat - any electronic or critical device used in any military use, no matter how small, must be manufactured in the USA.


            This was identified as a problem back in 2005 and the Pentagon, NSA, and CIA all told members of congress that this was "under control... we have a plan in place" obviously it hasn't worked since the posts upstream are dated 2011 and 2010 respectively.
            That would reinvigorate our manufacturing base in a year or so, and bring back a boatload of decent jobs.

            Yes it would... but with companies like GE and Boeing moving operations to China and lobbying our congressional reps... well deep pockets buy a blind eye.

            I don't like the idea of our tax dollars being used to send jobs off-shore and buy military components from foreign countries that are decimating our manufacturing sector.

            Here is a Bloomberg video report on Chinese counterfeit operations... and they aren't small potatoes!

            Dangerous Chips from China

            In case this embed doesn't work here is a link to the video:

            http://www.businessweek.com/...

        •  "Please" yourself. (0+ / 0-)

          It doesn't appear that you even read my comment. You replied with a screed "proving" what a bad actor China is--none of which I disagreed with--and completely ignored what I actually wrote, which was taking issue with the absolutely false assertion that you "must" sell an OS when you sell computer equipment.

          If you're going to respond to someone, do them--and yourself--the fucking courtesy of actually reading and responding to what they wrote instead of what you imagine they wrote.

          Sin lies only in hurting others unnecessarily. All other "sins" are invented nonsense.

          by Catsy on Mon Jan 23, 2012 at 08:03:51 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site