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View Diary: SC Primary Afterthoughts and Florida (324 comments)

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  •  I agree with this on all but one level (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    duha, Mambo, mrsgoo, Lefty Ladig

    It would be a very, very big fluke for Santorum to grab the golden ring.

    Score Card: Marriages won by me, 1. Marriages destroyed by me, 0.

    by Steven Payne on Sat Jan 21, 2012 at 08:31:51 PM PST

    [ Parent ]

    •  yeah - but we're getting closer and closer (3+ / 0-)

      I think the MSM spin on tonight is whacked (except insomuchas whatever they say is self fulfilling).

      I think Romney is damn near cooked.  The debate performances were astoundingly bad.  And Newt has such a devestatingly bad history - on so many levels - that I can't see the Rep money lining up behind him.  How do you prop him up -- and do you trust him with the power if you could?

      But the populist message is really powerful right now and the Romney veneer is cracked (probably irreparably).

      So . . . postulate that Newt wins FL or ties Romney and Santorum stays in double digits.  At that point I think the Romney campaign colapses.  The establishment money goes looking for a "Newternative".  Santorum is in the race.  I think Jeb and Christy have basically decided they don't want to lose to Obama (but maybe would come in if begged).

      I simply don't see the establishment backing Newt to the finish.

      But who knows.  It is hard to think like an establishment republican!  -)

      He, this might be as much fun as this whole damn election produces.  Obama disgusts me but these guys . . . Oi!


      •  I can't say (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Mambo, mightymouse, fou

        that Obama disgusts me. Let's put my emotion at lukewarm with support in the general.

        It's such a mess right now that anything could happen. If it comes down to losing Mitt entirely, it could be just as likely that we would see a brokered convention with anyone but Santorum and Gingrich getting the nod. Desperate times call for desperate measures.

        Score Card: Marriages won by me, 1. Marriages destroyed by me, 0.

        by Steven Payne on Sat Jan 21, 2012 at 08:50:45 PM PST

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      •  Obama "disgusts" you? (14+ / 0-)

        Then who in the world are you going to vote for, Paul? I certainly know if someone disgusted me I would no more want to vote for them than I'd want to pick up a bucket full of snot which, you have to admit, is pretty disgusting, too.

        •  honestly, I don't know if I will vote at all (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Sanctimonious, barleystraw

          I can't rule out the possibility that I will wind up voting for Obama.  I have never missed even an off year election or a primary.  But I really find him disgraceful to the liberal foundation which made this country great strong and wealthy.  His inability and unwillingness to articulate the values of liberalism are actually ceeding the working class to the right.  I won't support that sort of politician any longer.  I can definitey see sitting out the election.  

          I am interested in advancing policies -- not individuals.  A vote for Obama is a vote against my agenda.

          Can't comment on snot buckets but I hope that provides some insight to my thoughts.  

          •  A vote against Obama may be against your agenda (4+ / 0-)

            but a vote against him is a certainty.

            Score Card: Marriages won by me, 1. Marriages destroyed by me, 0.

            by Steven Payne on Sat Jan 21, 2012 at 09:53:14 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  policies don't hold office (19+ / 0-)

            individuals hold offices and policies are beholden to them for advancement.  you cant advance policies without having people in office who will pass them through committee, vote for them, and sign them into law.  So I think you probably should be interested in advancing individuals most likely to support the policies you want to see enacted.

            offered as an observation, not trying to start a fight.

            What senses do we lack that we cannot see another world all around us?

            by fearisthemindkiller on Sat Jan 21, 2012 at 09:54:11 PM PST

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          •  Whatever. (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Mambo, Matt Z, Curt Matlock, fou

            "No, I'm being judged against the ideal. Joe Biden has a saying: 'Don't judge me against the Almighty, judge me against the alternative." --President Barack Obama, 12/11/11

            by smoothnmellow on Sat Jan 21, 2012 at 09:57:34 PM PST

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          •  Seriously? (18+ / 0-)

            This feels like borderline trolling.  What exactly has Obama done that is "disgraceful to the liberal foundation" of the country?  Because here's what I've seen.

            - He achieved the holy grail of liberal achievements, which is moving the country very close to universal health care.  Every previous president that has ever tried this has gone down in flames.

            - He appointed two solidly liberal justices to the Supreme Court

            - He ended the Iraq war

            - He has rolled back a number of ugly anti-gay government initiatives, most notably Don't Ask Don't Tell.  He's also led the justice department to stop defending the DoMA.

            - He took out Osama bin Laden

            - He has helped fuel the flame of democratic revolutions in the Arab world while not being too heavy handed, notably changing US policy in that regard.

            Now, I assume you have some pet issue on which Obama hasn't done as much as you would have wanted.  But to claim that the president is "disgraceful" to liberalism is just ridiculous.

            •  meh (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:

              1.  All I know about healthcare is that he pretty much guaranteed a stream of payments to insurers.  If Obama looses, the insurance companies will be the ones defending obamacare.  The youth coverage guarantee is a meaningfull improvement but harldy a landmark achievement.

              2.  We'll see about the supreme court justices.  Way too soon.

              3.  The iraq war pertty much ended on the terms W negotiated.  I give Obama credit for actually sticking to them.  Lets get the US funded mercenaries out of there now.  THEN we can talk seriously about IRAQ.

              4.  I won't argue with you about Don't ask Don't Tell.  One thing I will say is that the onlyliberal constituency which truly advances its cause these days are the LGBT groups.  The advocate policy and don't care who the personality is -- it is the only serious approach.

              5.  Bin Laden?  Meh.  Time opportunity and the odds finally got Bin Laden.  Glad he's dead.  More importantly he has kept us in essentially the same post 9-11 posture as W's adminstration.  Gitmo, the Patriot Act, detaining American citizens without due process, reversing course on civil trials and failing ton defend the US Court system when a rational verdict was returned in the first trial (pathetic).  All bullshit.  No liberalism or liberties.  

              6.  Sounds like Bush.  Expanding some wars.  Starting others.  I am not saying it is a negative but the keystone of US foriegn policy (and domestic security) is middle east polciy and his unwillingness to move off the block on israel is telling.  His unwilingness to commit to a massive renewables campain domestically is equally telling.  Meet the new boss.

              Pet issues?  Seriously?  Tax policy?  Lowering estate taxes (when no one in the whole fucking country was asking for it)??? WTF?  Giving the rich 2 more years of unwarranted tax cuts (which are unjustifiable under ANY economic theory).  Why:  Because he is unwilling or unable to articulate the central principals of liberalism.  Escalating John Boener to co-president.  Failing to meet the jobs or mortgage crisis with direct government action (he either is a reagan supplyside fixes all woes guy or he was too chicken to fucking do the right and effective thing).  Leaders use crisis to both address the immediate issue and also to address the underlying institutional problems.  The absence of liberal government and the absence of tax fairness in the US over the past 30 years (along with rampant miitarism and crony capitalism) is the cause of the nations debt crisis and our fall from greatness.  Obama failed to rise to the challenge and opportunity presented.  As someone else said, when we needed greatness, we got a moderate 90'2 era republican.  Pathetic.

              Glad you joined kos.  Appreciate your sharing but call me a troll?  F-you.


              •  Meh. (0+ / 0-)
                All I know about healthcare is that he pretty much guaranteed a stream of payments to insurers.

                It seems to me, based on the medical loss ratios, the cheques being sent back to ordinary citizens and the insurers pulling out of the market that he did anything but.

       - Where Pragmatic Progressives are now Regrouping - Clear thinking liberals welcome

                by ultraviolet uk on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 09:38:56 AM PST

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          •  We don't have a choice between President Obama (0+ / 0-)

            and a liberal candidate.  We have a choice between President Obama and a conservative candidate.  Which one is likely to do more to advance your agenda?  

            Pay attention to what happened in just one year in OH and WI.  Decades of progress wiped out seemingly overnight.  It will take years of effort and millions of people and dollars to even have a prayer of getting back to where we were before the GOP took control in 2010.

            “when Democrats don’t vote, Democrats don’t win.” Alan Grayson

            by ahumbleopinion on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 09:51:47 AM PST

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      •  I have difficulty taking you seriously (6+ / 0-)

        ...when you say Obama "disgusts" you.  What exactly disgusts you about him?

      •  Wow! (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Sue B, Matt Z, Lefty Ladig, Contra

        Obama disgusts you and you think Santorum is a viable candidate for the general?

        Can I have some of what you're smoking please. - Where Pragmatic Progressives are now Regrouping - Clear thinking liberals welcome

        by ultraviolet uk on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 02:09:55 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Jakebob predicts (TM) (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      Jeb or Petraeus drafted at the R convention. Santorum has Google issues, to say the least!

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